Author Topic: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?  (Read 50330 times)

Tacachale

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2021, 11:32:36 PM »
Returning to the actual topic, this is a list of all days in Florida where violence occurred during or on the day of a protest, according to this Wikipedia article. The article doesn't include every peaceful protest as there were many in Jacksonville, but I expect it's a good record of the ones where violence occurred. No incident seems to have happened since June 4 when two white men assaulted a man playing a recording of an MLK speech.

Bonita Springs: On June 1, protesters vandalized a building with graffiti.
Fort Lauderdale: On May 31, one protester stole an American flag during an otherwise peaceful protest. On June 1, there was a standoff between police and protesters and rioting broke out.
Fort Myers: City officials took down a bust of Robert E. Lee to prevent demonstrators from potentially vandalizing it.
Gainesville: May 30, A man drove into a crowd of demonstrators and pulled a gun; he was arrested.
Jacksonville: May 30, about 200 people were Downtown after the much larger main protest ended and a riot broke out. A police officer was injured and property damage occurred. Police arrested about 65 people over the next two days, but the state attorney dropped charges on all but two of them.
Marco Island: On June 3, one protester was arrested for grabbing the phone of someone recording the protest; a bystander was arrested for carrying an assault rifle.
Miami: On May 30, following a larger protest, one large group of protesters began looting and rioting, leading the mayor to extend a curfew and state of emergency. On June 3, the FBI arrested groups of people, mostly Venezuelans, Cubans, Haitians and Hondurans, who it said were paid to cause violence at protests; on June 5 the White House stated they were connected to Venezuelan president Nicholas Maduro. I can't find any updates on this story. On June 4, a man playing a recording of MLK's I Have a Dream speech was assaulted by two white men.
Naples: On June 1, some protesters threw water bottles at police and punched a police car.
Orlando: On May 30, police used tear gas to disperse protesters blocking Orange Blossom Drive. On May 31, police used tear gas to disperse another crowd they said was heading toward I-4.
Tallahassee: On May 30, a man drove a truck through a crowd of demonstrators. He was arrested.
Tampa: On May 30, rioting and looting occurred at night following a much larger protest. Two police were injured and numerous arrests were made.
Temple Terrace: On May 30, police said protesters blocked streets; the protesters said the police used rubber bullets on them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Florida
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BridgeTroll

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #91 on: May 13, 2021, 07:04:44 AM »
OK Troll,  If I'm disrespecting law enforcement, you're disrespecting the Constitution.

These are my actual words... please read them...

quote author=BridgeTroll link=topic=36890.msg511291#msg511291 date=1620834871]
No one... no where... has said a single thing about limiting our right to peaceably assemble. T he first amendment sez.

First Amendment: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The moment violence begins the peaceable assembly is now over... time to go home or be arrested.

Since it is unlikely that a peaceable assembly begins in my neighborhood, and ends in a riot all I can do is feel sorry for those that lose a grocery or a business.  I'm sure the NAACP and ACLU will help make everyone whole..
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

BridgeTroll

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2021, 07:14:58 AM »
Returning to the actual topic, this is a list of all days in Florida where violence occurred during or on the day of a protest, according to this Wikipedia article. The article doesn't include every peaceful protest as there were many in Jacksonville, but I expect it's a good record of the ones where violence occurred. No incident seems to have happened since June 4 when two white men assaulted a man playing a recording of an MLK speech.

Bonita Springs: On June 1, protesters vandalized a building with graffiti.
Fort Lauderdale: On May 31, one protester stole an American flag during an otherwise peaceful protest. On June 1, there was a standoff between police and protesters and rioting broke out.
Fort Myers: City officials took down a bust of Robert E. Lee to prevent demonstrators from potentially vandalizing it.
Gainesville: May 30, A man drove into a crowd of demonstrators and pulled a gun; he was arrested.
Jacksonville: May 30, about 200 people were Downtown after the much larger main protest ended and a riot broke out. A police officer was injured and property damage occurred. Police arrested about 65 people over the next two days, but the state attorney dropped charges on all but two of them.
Marco Island: On June 3, one protester was arrested for grabbing the phone of someone recording the protest; a bystander was arrested for carrying an assault rifle.
Miami: On May 30, following a larger protest, one large group of protesters began looting and rioting, leading the mayor to extend a curfew and state of emergency. On June 3, the FBI arrested groups of people, mostly Venezuelans, Cubans, Haitians and Hondurans, who it said were paid to cause violence at protests; on June 5 the White House stated they were connected to Venezuelan president Nicholas Maduro. I can't find any updates on this story. On June 4, a man playing a recording of MLK's I Have a Dream speech was assaulted by two white men.
Naples: On June 1, some protesters threw water bottles at police and punched a police car.
Orlando: On May 30, police used tear gas to disperse protesters blocking Orange Blossom Drive. On May 31, police used tear gas to disperse another crowd they said was heading toward I-4.
Tallahassee: On May 30, a man drove a truck through a crowd of demonstrators. He was arrested.
Tampa: On May 30, rioting and looting occurred at night following a much larger protest. Two police were injured and numerous arrests were made.
Temple Terrace: On May 30, police said protesters blocked streets; the protesters said the police used rubber bullets on them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Florida

Thanks for providing. According to snake we are inundated with incompetent police... we are one officer mistake or resisting arrest incident away from peaceful assembly turning into a violent confrontation.

I do not think the legislation limits any peaceful protest...unless of course you are carrying frozen water bottles, rocks, etc... I await the results of the lawsuit and certainly accept the finding. Will you?
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Snaketoz

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #93 on: May 13, 2021, 08:15:48 AM »
Troll, I'd like you to direct me to any post where I said, "we are inundated with incompetent police".  I'm saying WHO makes the call that peaceful demonstrators potentially lose their civil rights simply by being in the area where others break the law.  You are an example of someone who takes the words or actions of others and turns it around to fit your own agenda.  I wouldn't care for those of your ilk to decide whether I'm in a riotous mob, or exercising my freedoms.  There are laws on the books for any crime that may be committed during a demonstration.  Why do we need yet another vague, easily manipulated, one-sided law?  What gives a political party in one state the right to re-write the law of the land we've had for 232 years?

BridgeTroll

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #94 on: May 13, 2021, 09:37:07 AM »
Who makes the call?  The same ones who do it every day across the the country in a variety of different circumstances.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Zac T

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #95 on: May 13, 2021, 12:55:20 PM »
Returning to the actual topic, this is a list of all days in Florida where violence occurred during or on the day of a protest, according to this Wikipedia article. The article doesn't include every peaceful protest as there were many in Jacksonville, but I expect it's a good record of the ones where violence occurred. No incident seems to have happened since June 4 when two white men assaulted a man playing a recording of an MLK speech.

Bonita Springs: On June 1, protesters vandalized a building with graffiti.
Fort Lauderdale: On May 31, one protester stole an American flag during an otherwise peaceful protest. On June 1, there was a standoff between police and protesters and rioting broke out.
Fort Myers: City officials took down a bust of Robert E. Lee to prevent demonstrators from potentially vandalizing it.
Gainesville: May 30, A man drove into a crowd of demonstrators and pulled a gun; he was arrested.
Jacksonville: May 30, about 200 people were Downtown after the much larger main protest ended and a riot broke out. A police officer was injured and property damage occurred. Police arrested about 65 people over the next two days, but the state attorney dropped charges on all but two of them.
Marco Island: On June 3, one protester was arrested for grabbing the phone of someone recording the protest; a bystander was arrested for carrying an assault rifle.
Miami: On May 30, following a larger protest, one large group of protesters began looting and rioting, leading the mayor to extend a curfew and state of emergency. On June 3, the FBI arrested groups of people, mostly Venezuelans, Cubans, Haitians and Hondurans, who it said were paid to cause violence at protests; on June 5 the White House stated they were connected to Venezuelan president Nicholas Maduro. I can't find any updates on this story. On June 4, a man playing a recording of MLK's I Have a Dream speech was assaulted by two white men.
Naples: On June 1, some protesters threw water bottles at police and punched a police car.
Orlando: On May 30, police used tear gas to disperse protesters blocking Orange Blossom Drive. On May 31, police used tear gas to disperse another crowd they said was heading toward I-4.
Tallahassee: On May 30, a man drove a truck through a crowd of demonstrators. He was arrested.
Tampa: On May 30, rioting and looting occurred at night following a much larger protest. Two police were injured and numerous arrests were made.
Temple Terrace: On May 30, police said protesters blocked streets; the protesters said the police used rubber bullets on them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Floyd_protests_in_Florida

This list is missing a few of the protests over the Confederate monument in St Augustine that had instances of violence. The first was when the group supporting the removal of the monument surrounded and threatened a man who was selling Trump merchandise. The second was a passerby who violently lunged and attacked several marchers. The third was a group of Proud Boys who assaulted several young women. The St Augustine PD quickly and efficiently apprehended all suspects and the protests went on passionately but peacefully afterwards.

There were also 2 instances of violence during protests in Baker County over the summer, both initiated by Trump supporters who continuously instigated young women. Unlike St Augustine,  the Baker County Sheriff's Office waited until things turned ugly to intervene but everyone involved was eventually arrested and the protests ended.

In all instances, the laws on the books were sufficient enough to arrest and charge all perpetrators of violence and allow the peaceful demonstrators to continue with their demonstration or go home, whichever they chose. Under the new law, everybody (including myself) could be arrested simply by being a part of the same group as the violent protesters and would not be eligible for bail prior to their date in court. That's why it is so dangerous because it gives police sole discretion to determine what a riot is and then they can arrest everyone even if you had nothing to do with the violence.

Due to not being able to control someone's actions but potentially being held liable for it, this new law will significantly discourage protests across the political spectrum and that is damaging to our country and completely against what the Constitution stands for.

vicupstate

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #96 on: May 13, 2021, 02:14:55 PM »
Well said ZacT.

It is also very troubling that this legislation comes on the heels of other legislation that seeks to make voting more difficult. Legislation in which all of the press (except State media) was banned from covering the signing ceremony. Democracy is dying by a thousand cuts, some small, some very big.     
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BridgeTroll

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #97 on: May 13, 2021, 02:19:42 PM »
Well then it's settled...  :)
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

MusicMan

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #98 on: May 13, 2021, 08:47:51 PM »
Republican like DeSantis are all for law and order unless it's investigating their good buddies, like Matt Gaetz or Trump.  For God's sake Rick Scott should have gone to jail, just like the kids selling dime bags in Brentwood, but our criminal justice system doesn't work that way.

Something tells me DeSantis will decry law and order if it indictes Trump and takes him to court (Georgia, DC, or New York).   Same for the traitors who stormed the capitol, many Repubs are trying to pretend it never happened.

 

MusicMan

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #99 on: May 24, 2021, 09:56:58 PM »
In his never ending pursuit of the Trump base, Ron D Santis has introduced anther ridiculous law that will inevitably cost Florida taxpayers while proving absolutely nothing.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/24/tech/desantis-big-tech-anti-censorship/index.html

jaxlongtimer

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #100 on: June 02, 2021, 06:21:40 PM »
As noted before, DeSantis is a state lawyer's full employment agent.  Here is another lawsuit over one of his ridiculous, unnecessary, politically motivated and likely unconstitutional laws.  Note the Disney exception at the end of the article.  So much for equal treatment under the law.  Just a big waste of taxpayer dollars on his silliness.
Quote
Two industry groups that represent tech companies including Facebook, Twitter, Google, and Amazon filed a lawsuit against Florida, claiming that a new law targeting online speech violates the First Amendment.

The lawsuit, filed by NetChoice and the Computer and Communications Industry Association, is aimed at a law enacted last week by Gov. Ron DeSantis.

DeSantis has framed the law as protecting citizens from online censorship. It's designed to prohibit social-media platforms from "willfully deplatforming" political candidates and lets Florida fine a company $250,000 a day if it does deplatform someone.

The law also lets Florida citizens sue a tech company for up to $100,000 if they believe it's breaking the law.

The lawsuit described the law as a "smorgasbord of constitutional violations" and argued that it would make it impossible for tech companies to exercise their First Amendment rights by moderating their platforms for objectionable and harmful content.

The tech groups filed the lawsuit last Thursday, seeking preliminary and permanent injunctions to prevent the law from coming into force on July 1.

"These unprecedented restrictions are a blatant attack on a wide range of content-moderation choices that these private companies have to make on a daily basis to protect their services, users, advertisers, and the public at large from a variety of harmful, offensive, or unlawful material," the lawsuit argued.

It also pointed to a loophole in the law exempting companies that own theme parks in Florida, such as Disney. The suit argued that this was evidence that the law unfairly targeted specific companies.

https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-twitter-sue-florida-censorship-deplatforming-law-ron-desantis-2021-6

bl8jaxnative

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #101 on: June 09, 2021, 09:54:06 AM »
Laws are a product of politics.  Calling them "politically motivated" betrays a deep ignorance over what's going on and how things work.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #102 on: June 09, 2021, 01:42:38 PM »
Laws are a product of politics.  Calling them "politically motivated" betrays a deep ignorance over what's going on and how things work.

To clarify, when I speak about politicization, I am talking about legislation passed, not for the greater good or needs of the legislators' constituents, but to mainly further the self interests of the legislators' passing it.  Thus, if you will, a different variety or flavor of "politically motivated."  The most obvious example is the legislature's ongoing assault on constitutional amendments passed by up to 70+% of voters.

Today's partisanship suggests that politicians are mainly interested in self preservation by appealing to a very limited but active base than serving the widest swath of the community.  Much of the blame goes on the middle range of the political spectrum for sitting out too many elections and, more generally, most of the political process.

Regardless, we now have what we have and most of what is being "produced" is due to this bad kind of "politically motivated." 


bl8jaxnative

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #103 on: June 11, 2021, 11:46:41 AM »
?  What gives a political party in one state the right to re-write the law of the land we've had for 232 years?


The Constitution.

The legislasture's job is to write laws.

What's next?  Complaining about pedestrians using sidewalks?   

Snaketoz

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #104 on: June 11, 2021, 12:16:01 PM »
?  What gives a political party in one state the right to re-write the law of the land we've had for 232 years?


The Constitution.

The legislasture's job is to write laws.

What's next?  Complaining about pedestrians using sidewalks?
The "legislasture's" of states can't amend the Constitution of the country.