Author Topic: Pilot e-scooter program in downtown Jacksonville hits some bumps in the road  (Read 28014 times)

Ken_FSU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 919
Also, reading that article featuring quotes by Rory Diamond, I'd question the demographic make up of the complainers.

Probably the demographic that enthusiastically votes yes for a $350 million cash handout to a billionaire while simultaneously getting preachy about a six-cent gas tax designed to help underserved neighborhoods.

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32876
    • Modern Cities
I can't tell you how many pedestrians I've saved from being hit by cars, while walking downtown. I've almost been taken out myself.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

BridgeTroll

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14053
  • The average person thinks he isnt
    • London Bridge Pub
As a guy walking and driving the downtown streets 40 hours a week, I've had way more close calls and witnessed more traffic infractions with Jimmy Johns employees and other white bicyclers than I've had with minority riders on scooters.

Curious that you don't hear anyone calling for a curfew on bicycles...

Curious you are mentioning "white bicyclers and minority riders" when I certainly have not.  Clearly you make assumptions of people's motivations without actually knowing what they are. Awesome.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

MusicMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2459
In downtown Jacksonville 'people' are constantly walking out in front of moving vehicles, hoping to get hit (and survive). Why do you think Farah and Farah have offices down there?

And I'll repeat, two roaming cops on beefed up scooters could keep the whole scene at night fun and safe. How hard is that to understand?

Adam White

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
    • Facebook
In downtown Jacksonville 'people' are constantly walking out in front of moving vehicles, hoping to get hit (and survive). Why do you think Farah and Farah have offices down there?

And I'll repeat, two roaming cops on beefed up scooters could keep the whole scene at night fun and safe. How hard is that to understand?

Safe for whom? As a middle class, white male, my experience with the police (and at the hands of the police) appears to be quite different than the experiences of many others. I am not sure adding cops to the mix always results in a good outcome.

“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

BridgeTroll

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14053
  • The average person thinks he isnt
    • London Bridge Pub
I don't know about all the other "stuff" being talked about or implied... I am simply interested in the safety of the children driving them... So in that light here are some actual facts...

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27372767/electric-scooters-mobility-safety/

https://www.thenationshealth.org/content/49/7/1.3

https://www.hopkinsallchildrens.org/ACH-News/General-News/Are-Electric-Scooters-Safe

https://time.com/5521308/electric-scooter-safety/
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 10:47:31 AM by BridgeTroll »
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

acme54321

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2706
Yeah, groups of 13 year olds weaving down the middle main street on scooters is the main problem I have seen.

bl8jaxnative

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 906

Downtown has a curfew on the serving of alcohol.

MusicMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2459
"Safe for whom? As a middle class, white male, my experience with the police (and at the hands of the police) appears to be quite different than the experiences of many others. I am not sure adding cops to the mix always results in a good outcome."

You only have to worry if your breaking the law.

Safe and fun...meaning correcting the scooter drivers before anyone gets hurt.

Adam White

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
    • Facebook
"Safe for whom? As a middle class, white male, my experience with the police (and at the hands of the police) appears to be quite different than the experiences of many others. I am not sure adding cops to the mix always results in a good outcome."

You only have to worry if your breaking the law.

Safe and fun...meaning correcting the scooter drivers before anyone gets hurt.

Okay, boomer.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

BridgeTroll

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14053
  • The average person thinks he isnt
    • London Bridge Pub
"Safe for whom? As a middle class, white male, my experience with the police (and at the hands of the police) appears to be quite different than the experiences of many others. I am not sure adding cops to the mix always results in a good outcome."

You only have to worry if your breaking the law.

Safe and fun...meaning correcting the scooter drivers before anyone gets hurt.

Okay, boomer.

Very helpful... you certainly have added a significant thought to the discussion.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

jaxoNOLE

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 169
In downtown Jacksonville 'people' are constantly walking out in front of moving vehicles, hoping to get hit (and survive). Why do you think Farah and Farah have offices down there?

And I'll repeat, two roaming cops on beefed up scooters could keep the whole scene at night fun and safe. How hard is that to understand?

Safe for whom? As a middle class, white male, my experience with the police (and at the hands of the police) appears to be quite different than the experiences of many others. I am not sure adding cops to the mix always results in a good outcome.

"Safe for whom?"

I'm not certain framing the issue of safety as a zero-sum game is accurate or helpful. You can acknowledge a history of systemic bias  while also realizing young teenagers, with not-yet-developed risk/reward reasoning, may require additional supervision when being allowed to operate scooters on the street with cars.

You'll notice race isn't a factor in that statement, which was clearly your implication. Whether a teenager on a scooter downtown or a teenager in a golf cart in Nocatee , it's inherently riskier than an adult operator of the same, on average. It doesn't seem unreasonable to be concerned for their safety and the safety of those around them if they're not following the rules of the road.

Statistics be damned, I'd bet money all it will take is one kid getting killed or hurt on these scooters and you can kiss them goodbye. I do not understand any argument for not enforcing valid traffic laws--these aren't Jim Crow laws--based on the user demographic of the scooters. Resource allocation decisions by JSO? Sure. If JTB needs 6 officers every day, it may be hard to get around to scooter enforcement. But that doesn't invalidate the safety concerns re: wrong-way...scooterers? Scooteri? Scooterae?

Edit: None of which is to suggest that complaints motivated by racial animus are excusable. This certainly is not a top-ten crime issue in Duval.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 09:34:29 PM by jaxoNOLE »

Adam White

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
    • Facebook
"Safe for whom? As a middle class, white male, my experience with the police (and at the hands of the police) appears to be quite different than the experiences of many others. I am not sure adding cops to the mix always results in a good outcome."

You only have to worry if your breaking the law.

Safe and fun...meaning correcting the scooter drivers before anyone gets hurt.

Okay, boomer.

Very helpful... you certainly have added a significant thought to the discussion.

Okay, boomer.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

Adam White

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3768
    • Facebook
In downtown Jacksonville 'people' are constantly walking out in front of moving vehicles, hoping to get hit (and survive). Why do you think Farah and Farah have offices down there?

And I'll repeat, two roaming cops on beefed up scooters could keep the whole scene at night fun and safe. How hard is that to understand?

Safe for whom? As a middle class, white male, my experience with the police (and at the hands of the police) appears to be quite different than the experiences of many others. I am not sure adding cops to the mix always results in a good outcome.

"Safe for whom?"

I'm not certain framing the issue of safety as a zero-sum game is accurate or helpful. You can acknowledge a history of systemic bias  while also realizing young teenagers, with not-yet-developed risk/reward reasoning, may require additional supervision when being allowed to operate scooters on the street with cars.

You'll notice race isn't a factor in that statement, which was clearly your implication. Whether a teenager on a scooter downtown or a teenager in a golf cart in Nocatee , it's inherently riskier than an adult operator of the same, on average. It doesn't seem unreasonable to be concerned for their safety and the safety of those around them if they're not following the rules of the road.

Statistics be damned, I'd bet money all it will take is one kid getting killed or hurt on these scooters and you can kiss them goodbye. I do not understand any argument for not enforcing valid traffic laws--these aren't Jim Crow laws--based on the user demographic of the scooters. Resource allocation decisions by JSO? Sure. If JTB needs 6 officers every day, it may be hard to get around to scooter enforcement. But that doesn't invalidate the safety concerns re: wrong-way...scooterers? Scooteri? Scooterae?

Edit: None of which is to suggest that complaints motivated by racial animus are excusable. This certainly is not a top-ten crime issue in Duval.

My point was that the rush to add police to 'fix' a problem might not be the best solution. From reading this thread, I have been advised by Karen...I mean Simms...that the demographic using these scooters the most is young black men. The fact of the matter is that black men are treated differently by cops than white men. Now, it may not be an issue and it may be that you add a couple of cops to the mix and everything works out fine. But I think that just looking to add cops to address the perceived issues is - or seems to be - overkill.

I don't know what the solution is. I'm just saying that maybe we should try to be a bit creative about this and not just throw cops into the mix as the first solution.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

BridgeTroll

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14053
  • The average person thinks he isnt
    • London Bridge Pub
According to the statistics someone has probably been hurt already in Jax... I  bet a good lawyer could make some money here...

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/health/fl-ne-scooter-injuries-20200201-dsyh33jftzevflcxdnw4g66voa-story.html
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 07:09:12 AM by BridgeTroll »
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."