Jags are having a 'serious' conversation about a new team facility

[thelakelander]

The Miami Dolphins are also constructing a new facility with Miami Orthopedics and Sports medicine worth $135 million. It will be privately funded by their owner Stephen Ross.

I don't see this as anything new or it being outside of the sports district. What's described in the Miami Dolphins example is exactly what's proposed next door to the Four Seasons Hotel site.

[JaxAvondale]

“We’re having a serious conversation about a facility here, a brand-new facility,” [Head Coach Urban Meyer] said. “I’ve put together a sports performance team that I expect to be the best in the NFL. You’re talking about Jacksonville, Florida … no state tax and all of the above … weather. I want this to be the destination place in the National Football League.

https://jaguarswire.usatoday.com/2021/03/07/urban-meyer-wants-new-jaguars-facility/

It makes a lot of sense and Sports Performance is a lucrative business. Most athletes across the professional leagues come to the same facilities for surgeries and rehab. These procedures are paid for by the teams. So, if you get a top notch Sports Performance facility and doctors to come to Jax then you could drive a lot of revenue for players hanging out for a few weeks while they rehab. I’m not saying that the city should foot the bill but this does make a lot of sense for the Jags to add to their business portfolio.

[BridgeTroll]

^LOL, I thought most pro players go wherever they get the most money  .  Why else would you play in places like Green Bay and Buffalo?

Money is certainly the main factor but facilities are a large piece of the puzzle also... I  cannot speak about Buffalo but the Packers facilities are some of the best in the NFL...

[BridgeTroll]

^LOL, I thought most pro players go wherever they get the most money  .  Why else would you play in places like Green Bay and Buffalo?

Money is certainly the main factor but facilities are a large piece of the puzzle also... I  cannot speak about Buffalo but the Packers facilities are some of the best in the NFL...

Apparently Buffalo is very top notch...

https://www.sorinex.com/blogs/newsroom/bills-new-sports-performance-center

[Lostwave]

They have been surveying the north end of lot N, right next to the practice fields.  Most likely going to be the location of the new Facility.

[jaxlongtimer]

^LOL, I thought most pro players go wherever they get the most money  .  Why else would you play in places like Green Bay and Buffalo?

Money is certainly the main factor but facilities are a large piece of the puzzle also... I  cannot speak about Buffalo but the Packers facilities are some of the best in the NFL...

Apparently Buffalo is very top notch...

https://www.sorinex.com/blogs/newsroom/bills-new-sports-performance-center

Looks like Meyer might be copying Buffalo in more ways than one  :

Quote in Times Union article from Meyer (emphasis added):

''Obviously, money plays a huge role, but if those start to get close: "We want to go to Jacksonville. Why? Great place to raise a family, a great place to live, great weather, great tax situation – and oh by the way: We have the best facility and the best support staff and best sports performance team in the NFL. That's the vision. That's the dream I have,'' Meyer told Jaguars.com.   

''It's much easier in the NFL when you're talking about free agency, but you start getting into age and money. That's what I'm not used to. In college, you're 17-to-22 years old. I just got done watching a 32-year-old defensive lineman where it's, "How much more does he have left in his tank?" And then: "What's the value?"

Quotes by Buffalo personnel:

The timing of the facility opening was planned, too. Players started the offseason conditioning program Monday, but ahead of that, Beane used the new facility as a recruiting tool. He sent pictures and renderings of the facility to agents of free-agent players the team was interested in signing.

“I advertised it to as many agents as I could,” he said. "If they showed them to them, great, if they didn't that was on them. I said, ‘I want you to at least be able to tell them what this new thing looks like.’

"Obviously, money and fit for the players matters probably more than that, but if we can win some ties because of that, that's huge. Word of mouth is going to be big on what we've got going here. Our goal is to help players extend their career. That's how you ultimately make more money, is the longevity.”

That’s what Beasley was referring to when contrasting the Bills to the Cowboys – one of the NFL’s elite franchises.

“They want to go to a place that they feel they can extend their career,” Kim Pegula said of free agents. “They know the importance of taking care of their bodies. They're looking for a place that cares about them and has the facilities to keep them on the field, extend their career, and in the long run they'll make more money as a player. Performance will improve. They'll get to spend another year or more in the league. I believe that will be a huge factor for free agents coming in.”

Apparently Buffalo is very top notch...

[landfall]

This is the Four Seasons Hotel development they are talking to the DIA about at Metropolitan Park.

Are you sure? Seems to me like Meyer wants a purpose built "world class" facility. I know there's talk of the orthopaedics place at the four seasons and dailys place has the flex field  but the vibe I got was a purpose built facility rather than sort of what exists just now of the added parts dotted around the stadium, which would lead me to believe somewhere suburban close to where most of their players and staff live and with cheap land to build something substantial, therefore the Southside or St. Johns/Clay.

[jaxlongtimer]

This is the Four Seasons Hotel development they are talking to the DIA about at Metropolitan Park.

Are you sure? Seems to me like Meyer wants a purpose built "world class" facility. I know there's talk of the orthopaedics place at the four seasons and dailys place has the flex field  but the vibe I got was a purpose built facility rather than sort of what exists just now of the added parts dotted around the stadium, which would lead me to believe somewhere suburban close to where most of their players and staff live and with cheap land to build something substantial, therefore the Southside or St. Johns/Clay.

Agree.  Just check out the description and photos below from the Buffalo link:

Some of the highlights include:

• A new, 26,000-square-foot weight room – more than triple its previous size – that features more than 100 pieces of equipment, including 16 complete Sorinex racks.

• A renovated and expanded training room/sport science area that is more than 14,000 square feet – double what was previously in place. Included in that training room is a 1,600-square-foot player recovery space and 700-square-foot player recovery lounge.

• Want to cool down? A newly installed Cryotherapy unit provides temperatures as low as minus-197.5 degrees Fahrenheit.

• Need to warm up? The new hot yoga studio can reach up to 100 degrees, while the new sauna can send the mercury soaring to 190 degrees.

• The state-of-the-art AV system includes 2,300-square-feet of high-definition projection – the equivalent of 150 70-inch televisions tiled together.

• The sound system in the weight room can reach 130 decibels – the same as a military jet taking off from an aircraft carrier with afterburners at 50 feet. The system is powered by 18,000 watts – 50 percent more than an IMAX theater speaker system.

So, yes, it has all the bells and whistles, but as Beane said, “It’s not just a showpiece. It’s practical.”

“I think we wanted to create, at least from the strength and conditioning part of it, a room that's clean, but still tough,” said Eric Ciano, the team’s head of strength and conditioning. “It doesn't have a warehouse feel. It’s still an intimate atmosphere where guys work together and aren't so spread out. That was one of the big goals – is that guys really get to know each other in that room. We build the team in that area. We wanted them in there close and together.”

[thelakelander]

I get the impression of the Green Bay facilities, which are literally across the street from Lambeau Field. That would be more in line with their consistent desire to cluster their investments together to create a sports and entertainment destination. A remote facility doesn't exactly align with the direction they've taken the last decade. From the original Shipyards plan, to the amphitheater, Lot J and now the Four Seasons proposal, they all included some component of team facilities and offices. Reading those linked articles, I don't get the vibe that being a suburban location, especially something outside of Duval County (do most of the players/staff even stay outside of Duval or is that assumed?). Everything the Jags have done to date has required COJ to be a significant financial partner. I can't imagine COJ contributing to something outside of its limits, any of the other counties remotely offering up the type of financial assistance they've come to rely on or COJ being a willing player.

[landfall]

I get the impression of the Green Bay facilities, which are literally across the street from Lambeau Field. That would be more in line with their consistent desire to cluster their investments together to create a sports and entertainment destination. A remote facility doesn't exactly align with the direction they've taken the last decade. From the original Shipyards plan, to the amphitheater, Lot J and now the Four Seasons proposal, they all included some component of team facilities and offices. Reading those linked articles, I don't get the vibe that being a suburban location, especially something outside of Duval County (do most of the players/staff even stay outside of Duval or is that assumed?). Everything the Jags have done to date has required COJ to be a significant financial partner. I can't imagine COJ contributing to something outside of its limits, any of the other counties remotely offering up the type of financial assistance they've come to rely on or COJ being a willing player.

If they are to build something major downtown containing some of the things listed in the Buffalo facility they'd probably require to use the shipyards vacant land or rip up more parking lots. Maybe this is their home run attempt for the next round of negotiations as we've all kind of theorised about what they'll ask for, I.e. a roof over the stadium?

I visited Lambeau in 2016. Its a truly year round facility and they've since been building out the title town district. Its a bit of a different dynamic of course up there compared to here with the size of the city, placing of the stadium and the historical standing of that team. I've always felt they're smarting after the Shipyards Lot J failure. Part of me is sort of willing to let them create a campus of sorts utilising dormant land that I'm sick of continuing to sit without a purpose, but part of me thinks this is major riverfront land, it deserves more than a football field or a fitness center.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ My guess is that for enough compensation, the approximate 15 acre fairgrounds could be put into play.  It's even contiguous to the Jag's outdoor practice fields.  Seems that would fit the bill for all the Jag's needs pretty close to perfectly.

I believe repurposing the fairgrounds has come up before but the offers were not sweet enough.  Time to try again?

[marcuscnelson]

I remember reading something about a proposal during Brown's administration to move the Fairgrounds to the Cecil area, presumably near the Equestrian Center. Could that end up in play?

Bonus, there were repeated mentions by Lake of the possibility of shuffling the Lot J elements to Lots M, N and P, which it turns out I mocked up a few months back:



Package all of that together and be realistic about what it would cost (for the love of God try the slightest amount to not openly rip taxpayers off) and I think it could be reasonably popular. Public gets all the Lot J stuff (maybe even get the high rises back?) and a new Fairgrounds (increased incentive for development on the Westside!), Jags get their fancy new team facility and presumably at least some of the returns on the development.

[Ken_FSU]

I get the impression of the Green Bay facilities, which are literally across the street from Lambeau Field. That would be more in line with their consistent desire to cluster their investments together to create a sports and entertainment destination. A remote facility doesn't exactly align with the direction they've taken the last decade. From the original Shipyards plan, to the amphitheater, Lot J and now the Four Seasons proposal, they all included some component of team facilities and offices. Reading those linked articles, I don't get the vibe that being a suburban location, especially something outside of Duval County.

100% correct here.

Logistically, it makes zero sense to have the facilities removed from the sports district, and goes against the Jags' overall philosophy about development.

The most two logical locations are Lot N (which Lostwave mentioned earlier), and the Fairgrounds (which Curry and Hughes have been in discussions with the Jags about as recently as November). Both are adjacent to the existing practice fields.

The facilities that Urban Meyer are talking about simply involve removing cramped player facilities and team operations that are currently inside of the stadium and building better standalone versions outside the stadium.

Someone earlier mentioned that the public ask could be over $100 million for new facilities. Unless it's dragged out long enough to be tied to the stadium expansion, I can't imagine there will be any significant public ask for the new team facilities.

The Orthopedics center at Met Park is an entirely different thing.

Hasn't been formally announced, but that won't be a Jags thing, it'll be built and operated by Baptist Health (assuming all the things that never fall into place actually do fall into place).

[Papa33]

The deal includes a 30-year commitment for the Bills to remain in Buffalo, and a combined $550 million from the NFL and Bills, which was approved Monday by NFL owners. The Governor will advance a $600 million proposal in the state budget, and Erie County will contribute $250 million. That total share of publicly financing adds up to 60.7% of the funding required to build the stadium.

"Just comparing where we were in the past, when this stadium was originally built in 1973, 100% of that was financed by the public. Even the renovations in 1998, 100% financed by the public sector. And our financing back in 2013 when the renovations were made, that was 73%," Gov. Hochul explained. "We negotiated hard, we drove those numbers down, and now our state share is 43% and the public share overall is only 60.7%."

[Fallen Buckeye]

I work in marketing, so I know how percentages are often used to obfuscate the true costs. Comparing dollars to dollars, the numbers don't look as good as what the politicians and NFL are selling. The Bills' stadium was built for the equivalent of $141 million in today's dollars. That means the Buffalo taxpayers are investing more than 6 times as much as they did to originally build the stadium. 

In Jax's case, the Jags stadium was constructed for the equivalent of $225 million in today's dollars. In 2013, the city contributed the equivalent of $76 million in today's dollars for the scoreboards and pools. Then we had the renovation in 2016 for $106 million in today's dollars. That's about $407 million for roughly the Jaguars first decade of existence.

Looking at the next decade or so, we've got the $60 million public investment. Then let's say the Jags evenly split a $1 billion stadium project. That's maybe $560 million over the next decade and that's probably conservative. So let's say $56 million a year in public investment to keep the Jags to make it easier to comprehend.

Do we offset the $56 million price through taxes collected and direct economic impact to the community each year? Does the community benefit enough in other ways to justify the investment? Personally, I'm skeptical, but I'm open to hearing any figures that might change my mind.