Author Topic: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB  (Read 18294 times)

acme54321

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Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
« Reply #75 on: September 17, 2021, 01:13:14 PM »
Interesting that Atkins has this project scoped at $70 million while the Barnett alone ended up at nearly $60 million.

Barnett is a much larger structure, according to the property appraiser it's 216k sq ft vs 93k for all three Trio buildings combined.  On top of that there are a lot less unknowns about the new construction portion of the Trio project so you can getter better cost estimates on that piece.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 01:15:01 PM by acme54321 »

jaxjags

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Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
« Reply #76 on: September 17, 2021, 02:36:54 PM »
Given the cost over runs at the Barnett,  they probably have a  large contingency fund to cover unexpected costs.

Ken_FSU

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Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
« Reply #77 on: September 17, 2021, 03:23:15 PM »
Interesting that Atkins has this project scoped at $70 million while the Barnett alone ended up at nearly $60 million.

Barnett is a much larger structure, according to the property appraiser it's 216k sq ft vs 93k for all three Trio buildings combined.  On top of that there are a lot less unknowns about the new construction portion of the Trio project so you can getter better cost estimates on that piece.

Good info! Thanks acme!

thelakelander

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jaxlongtimer

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Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
« Reply #79 on: September 27, 2021, 12:22:41 PM »
^ I am thinking with a housing shortage and the increased housing Downtown we should be at, or close, to the point where the City no longer incentivizes such projects unless they are restoring a historic building.  Only others are projects that bring jobs, maybe.

Captain Zissou

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Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
« Reply #80 on: September 27, 2021, 12:49:07 PM »
^ I am thinking with a housing shortage and the increased housing Downtown we should be at, or close, to the point where the City no longer incentivizes such projects unless they are restoring a historic building.  Only others are projects that bring jobs, maybe.

The rents that the city can command and the impact of increasing construction costs still make margins very slim or non-existent for developers downtown.  $2.50-$3.0 per square foot is the very upper end of what you can charge locally.  That doesn't cover the added expenses caused by material and labor shortages/delays.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
« Reply #81 on: September 27, 2021, 01:31:16 PM »
^ I am thinking with a housing shortage and the increased housing Downtown we should be at, or close, to the point where the City no longer incentivizes such projects unless they are restoring a historic building.  Only others are projects that bring jobs, maybe.

The rents that the city can command and the impact of increasing construction costs still make margins very slim or non-existent for developers downtown.  $2.50-$3.0 per square foot is the very upper end of what you can charge locally.  That doesn't cover the added expenses caused by material and labor shortages/delays.

Suburban apartment developers have the same construction costs and labor issues but it's not slowing them down.  Some of the complexes appear to be selling at upwards of $250 to $300K a unit.  Rents in the area are rising at double digit rates.  Urban living seems finally to be coming in style here.  Investors also seem to be accepting of relatively low cap rates putting a premium on these developments allowing developers to cash out handsomely. I am not convinced we are not approaching a point where it can make sense to build Downtown without incentives.

What is really missing Downtown is more retail and better urban-centered public transit so living without use of a car is much easier.  The savings of not having to have to operate a full time vehicle helps support premium rents too.

jaxjaguar

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Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
« Reply #82 on: September 27, 2021, 01:45:49 PM »
Without incentives the developers build more suburban style stick framed low rise apartments on the outermost limits of downtown to maximize profit because land is cheap... Rather than fill in the empty lots near the SkyWay stations / Hogan St, Water St etc where density is needed. Jacksonville is permanently stuck in a "fill outward in" mentality rather than "fill inward  out". This is what causes people to move to the suburbs and businesses that should be in the CBD to move into office parks away from downtown.

I remember when I was working for one of the largest companies in Jacksonville and they were desperate for new office space. Plenty was available downtown, but ultimately they settled on offices in South Point and moving some jobs to another state because so many people complained about not wanting to work downtown. It wasn't that the employees were scared or concerned about things to do after work. The 3 biggest complaints were 1. traffic 2. Lack of parking 3. 90%+ of our employees lived in St Johns County, Mandarin and Orange Park so South Point was "the central location".

I predict Nocatee and St Johns building out more office parks and further exacerbating the problem, because land is cheap and people don't want to spend 2 hours going to and from work each way every day.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2021, 01:48:02 PM by jaxjaguar »

Captain Zissou

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Re: Laura Street Trio finally headed to DDRB
« Reply #83 on: September 27, 2021, 02:58:19 PM »
Suburban apartment developers have the same construction costs and labor issues but it's not slowing them down. 

4 story stick built with surface parking is not at all "the same construction costs".

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