Author Topic: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs  (Read 2042 times)

thelakelander

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LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla. —
Brightline and Walt Disney World Resort announced Monday that they have entered into an agreement to build a train station at Disney Springs.

The Brightline station will add a new travel option between Walt Disney World and Orlando International Airport.

It will also connect guests from Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach and planned stations in Aventura, Boca Raton and Port Miami, Brightline officials said.

Brightline’s expansion from West Palm Beach to the Orlando International Airport is slated to be completed in 2022.

Full article: https://www.wesh.com/article/disney-brightline-high-speed-rail/34758418
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thelakelander

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2020, 03:50:22 PM »
Brightline pact has a Wynwood station on track

https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2020/...wMaYPcd2potoVs



Brightline, Miami-Dade County Agree To Fee For Commuter Rail

https://patch.com/florida/miami/brig...LncJqXsUtKfeSo



Brightline Will Probably Resume Service In 1Q 2021, A Company Executive Says

https://www.thenextmiami.com/when-wi...dq0M1BPEe0RlnU
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marcuscnelson

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2020, 08:48:29 PM »
Nice to see they've been so busy despite the unfortunate news out west.

I wondered where exactly they'd put a station at Disney Springs. It seems like a substantial jump to get from where the CSX/SunRail line is by the airport (assuming they are using part of that line versus 100% new track). Side note, I was surprised to see on Google Maps that there only seem to be 3 tracks at the Orlando station. For some reason I expected at least four.

Going off this map from the Orlando Business Journal:



It looks like the plan is to build a new line from SunRail along SR 417, break off to follow SR 536, and then cut north from the I-4 interchange to end up somewhere between Typhoon Lagoon and the Team Disney building. Assuming it's accurate. And then that leaves questions of how they go from there to head towards Tampa.

Wynwood has been very insistent on getting a station, so I guess it's nice to see that they're getting covered. Miami-Dade is apparently going to pay $410 million for the first 30 years (including the $50 million upfront), which does seem like a lot put that way. Assuming the price doesn't change for the last 60 (which it most assuredly will) that's another $720 million, putting the total cost at a minimum $1.1 billion over 90 years. Which really doesn't seem that bad on that timescale, but I'm no accountant. Plus $5 billion in economic impact over just 10 years sounds pretty nice.

I get the feeling that resuming service in 1Q '21 is not something they're massively hedging their bets on. It's been said before that there's not that good a reason to open up before Orlando is done. At best, I'd expect if they open before that, it would be in time to open the Aventura station. But maybe they're betting that with a vaccine likely on the way and a chance at normalcy by the summer it's a good idea to start generating revenue again.
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Pottsburg

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2020, 07:10:12 AM »
If they keep adding stops it’ll be a 6 hour journey from Miami to Orlando. I hope they run it like a European schedule and have a direct express train at the beginning and end of the day.
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thelakelander

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2020, 07:47:30 AM »
Express and local trains will resolve that issue.
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Steve

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2020, 09:13:22 AM »
The Disney stop could be a spur off the main track as well, in order to get to Tampa.

That aside, I am curious of the exact alignment. You could tuck the ROW up against the highway, but there's still a lot of highway ramps to work around/under/through. This could get expensive fast.

thelakelander

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2020, 09:48:47 AM »
It appears they'd be using SR 417 and then SR 536 to get to Disney Springs. By not stopping at Meadow Woods, Brightline forces Sunrail to run an east west line between those two key stops. Otherwise, there's no real need for Sunrail to run this line. Without the Meadow Woods to MCO link, it would attract very little ridership.
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marcuscnelson

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2020, 11:36:56 AM »
I can't help but think about how SunRail would have been a great name for (non-express) regional rail service, or even for the HSR system if it had been built back at the beginning of the last decade instead of the beginning of this one. I suppose ultimately Brightline service connecting all of these smaller stations will just be given a name under that umbrella, but still.

Whenever we get around to commuter rail in Jacksonville, I wonder what kind of name we'll give that. First Coast Flyer was a good name, but obviously that's BRT. First Coast Commuter Rail kinda stinks, but then again we actually went ahead with "Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center" when Pond even offered JAXIS, so chances are it'll be that. Maybe "First Coast Connector" if we're feeling good.

To get back on topic, as I said, it looks like the line follows 417 and 536 before breaking off at I-4 and putting the stop in the vicinity of Typhoon Lagoon and Team Disney. A spur seems to be what they've set themselves up for, which I guess isn't completely out there if they ultimately want Tampa-Orlando to be more direct. Looking at the area, it's either going to be tucked up against the highway like at the airport or elevated in the middle like the old HSR proposal. That leads me to wonder if they'd build this new line to true HSR standards (186+) to try and make it easier for them down the road, in the event they want to electrify and upgrade trainsets.

Lake, I would think part of the deal is also giving SunRail access to Disney, which they almost certainly wouldn't build themselves. I imagine there will definitely be a Miami-Orlando express, and perhaps even a PortMiami-Orlando or Disney express.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

thelakelander

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2020, 11:52:38 AM »
Originally, it was thought of as Brightline having their own stations at OIA, Meadow Woods and Disney. If that were the case, there would be no need for Sunrail to run an east-west line themselves.

Also, for those mentioning Disney as a spur line to Tampa.....this will be a part of the Tampa segment. Moving forward, they'll go from Disney down to Lakeland and Tampa in the median of I-4. At Disney Springs, I assume they'll try to link in with the large parking garages between the development and I-4.
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #9 on: November 24, 2020, 12:27:14 PM »
Would love to see a Brightline run directly from Tampa to Gainesville to Jacksonville in addition to a direct line from Jax to Miami.  There appears to be CSX tracks that would approximate that: https://www.csx.com/index.cfm/customers/maps/csx-system-map/.

UF would be an amazing asset to Jax if we could have more direct access to it.  Imagine if it was about a 30 to 45 minute ride from Downtown.  A direct line to Tampa and Miami by high speed rail would substanitially elevate Jacksonville's economy in my opinion.

Sigh... all this takes visionary thinking and long term planning.  We don't have anywhere near that in Jax today.  I feel like Charlie Brown...  ;D

thelakelander

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2020, 12:53:53 PM »
Brightline on CSX tracks won't be happening. Once we get past Tampa, it will likely be nothing or Cocoa to Jax on the FEC.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 01:00:02 PM by thelakelander »
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marcuscnelson

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2020, 01:02:53 PM »
^ I've actually been thinking a lot about this lately. Gainesville used to have much more track connecting it to the rest of the state, but of course as passenger rail declined those tracks have been mostly torn up and turned into trails. The one remaining line into Gainesville appears to end a bit distant from UF campus itself, although I suppose RTS could connect a route there if the need arose. Connecting 50,000 college students to the rest of the state would be a boon, and I can almost guarantee that many of them would take the train instead of a bus, plane, or car. (The number of students alone who would trip out to the beach and back would be incredible)

The challenge with the remaining line is that it starts off going the wrong way. Instead of heading east towards the CSX line and Jacksonville, it heads northwest to Alachua before turning and heading towards Starke. A journey by car along the route (not exactly) shows it taking about an hour and fifty minutes. Assuming the rail line is a little more direct and faster than that perhaps strips 15 minutes, but then likely stops in Alachua, La Crosse, Starke, perhaps Lawtey, and Baldwin probably add that time back and then some on the way to Union Terminal. Building a new line from the existing one out to the CSX line at Waldo and then heading north to Starke and Baldwin would certainly save time, but I don't know if there's a will to build that line.

And I had zero expectation that Brightline would be the one to do it. My presumption was that this idea basically requires a Tallahassee (and Governor) willing to get on board with state-subsidized Amtrak service. Although in that case it'd ironically probably use the same trainsets as Brightline, since those are being built for Amtrak in Illinois and California. A possible alternate idea would be some kind of team-up between JTA/Duval County and RTS/Alachua County, but that seems much less likely.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2020, 01:27:22 PM »
Brightline on CSX tracks won't be happening. Once we get past Tampa, it will likely be nothing or Cocoa to Jax on the FEC.

How about a Sunrail type connection to at least Gainesville - maybe along some road ROW's?  One day, this connection should definitely be enhanced to benefit both cities.

thelakelander

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2020, 01:45:29 PM »
The problem is it will cost a ton of money and ridership will be limited. Commuter rail works best when you can take advantage of an existing rail line. If you think the Skyway is a failure, you haven't seen anything yet because it gets a lot more riders per mile and at a cheaper cost now, than Sunrail does in Orlando. Building a new line as far out as Gainesville only makes sense when you already have a decent system in place, IMO. Going one step further, with the mad rush to replace the Skyway with AVs the size of minivans, I question commuter rail working in Jax altogether if JTA is going to be the lead on it. At this point, the only commuter rail route I see being realistic in the next 10-20 years is Jax to St. Augustine and only piggybacking a Brightline investment into a Jax to Miami route on the FEC coming first.
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acme54321

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Re: Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2020, 08:00:29 PM »
There's no way rail is ever coming back into the heart of Gainesville.  The only line left within 20 miles of town is the CSX spur from Alschua and it only goes to 16th St.  The rail network in town has been heavily converted to rail trails, which are a huge asset to the city, which isn't going to give those up.