Author Topic: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park  (Read 166752 times)

thelakelander

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #360 on: February 10, 2023, 08:32:44 AM »
I don't have a problem with giving incentives. I'm a huge fan of them, as downtown has been hurt so bad in the past by self inflicted mistakes that the market isn't there to support a lot of things people want to see. I just believe if there's $400 million to incentive, it would be better spent doing that instead of being burnt on moving the jail at this point.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Jax_Developer

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #361 on: February 10, 2023, 09:03:54 AM »
Fair point, but from reading posts here over time, the users here seem to be way more aware of how a lot of these programs work. The public seems to have a more cynical view on it from my perspective. My opinion stems from being relatively young. I absolutely hate the U2C plan, and that has been earmarked for roughly $400M(?). JAX has been featured by transit channels on youtube, being mocked for the plan..

Not to mention the DIA incentives now have to be topping $1B in REV grants. Divide that by 25, and thats roughly $40M a year on average. Plus the $$ being spent on the parks, plus the reduced tax base from existing buildings near the prison. Other cities have used private development incentives to 'force' public space to be paid for & built by the developer. Another way to share the cost rather than having a decade long 'study' on what to do with some of the best land in JAX. Crazy too how the city hasn't considered doing the superfund sites themselves.

Just super difficult with these big glaring factors that development companies are almost always weary of. Developers like doing what is already known to them. Those are huge uncertainties. Im hopeful for the clustered developments in the Northbank now, maybe that can spark the fire.

Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #362 on: February 10, 2023, 09:13:19 AM »
I don't have a problem with giving incentives. I'm a huge fan of them, as downtown has been hurt so bad in the past by self inflicted mistakes that the market isn't there to support a lot of things people want to see. I just believe if there's $400 million to incentive, it would be better spent doing that instead of being burnt on moving the jail at this point.

Or running 10 miles of streetcar down Bay Street through Lavilla and into Brooklyn, and down Main into Springfield.

Or earmarking it for the stadium rebuild.

We've spent such an astronomical amount of money in the last decade on things that have resulted in no net gain for downtown - sinking Coastline into the river, demolishing the Courthouse and Annex, buying out Sleiman, halfway tearing down the Hart Bridge ramps, moving MOSH from a great spot to a worse spot - that I just think we need to really ask ourselves over the next decade if each downtown investment is truly, concretely, immediately additive.

100% aligned with planning for a jail move down the line, and now is the time to start thinking through what that might look like, I just don't think know is the time to be putting significant investment behind it when there are so many other more pressing needs.

Jax_Developer

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #363 on: February 10, 2023, 09:48:42 AM »
Agreed.. probably why there is such a splintered opinion. Hard to know where to focus next.

fieldafm

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #364 on: February 10, 2023, 10:09:22 AM »
I don't have a problem with giving incentives. I'm a huge fan of them, as downtown has been hurt so bad in the past by self inflicted mistakes that the market isn't there to support a lot of things people want to see. I just believe if there's $400 million to incentive, it would be better spent doing that instead of being burnt on moving the jail at this point.

Or running 10 miles of streetcar down Bay Street through Lavilla and into Brooklyn, and down Main into Springfield.

Or earmarking it for the stadium rebuild.

We've spent such an astronomical amount of money in the last decade on things that have resulted in no net gain for downtown - sinking Coastline into the river, demolishing the Courthouse and Annex, buying out Sleiman, halfway tearing down the Hart Bridge ramps, moving MOSH from a great spot to a worse spot - that I just think we need to really ask ourselves over the next decade if each downtown investment is truly, concretely, immediately additive.

100% aligned with planning for a jail move down the line, and now is the time to start thinking through what that might look like, I just don't think know is the time to be putting significant investment behind it when there are so many other more pressing needs.

The 'Jacksonville Armada' stadium legislation is being introduced next week.  Don't forget to add that to the list of funny money being cooked up out of thin air.

avonjax

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #365 on: February 10, 2023, 02:21:50 PM »
Noticed in the new plan for Riverfront Plaza no JAX art. I thought that was the reason the original bid was chosen. So exasperating. So typical Jax. Never, never get your hopes up until you see it appear cuz it probably won't.

Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #366 on: February 10, 2023, 02:59:14 PM »
^From the Times-Union when Perkins+Will was announced as the winner:

Quote
Perkins & Will Wins Park Design Competition

Full story: https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2021/07/22/perkins-wins-park-design-where-jacksonville-landing-used/8053100002/

The scoring came after three nationally known firms presented their visions in an all-day meeting last month that showed how they would stamp a Jacksonville-inspired design on property that sits in the center of downtown and has been shown countless times on national television broadcasts.

The other finalists in the running were Agency Landscape + Planning, based in Cambridge, Mass., and Olin Partnership of Philadelphia. Perkins&Will has studios in cities across the country.

Boyer said the three teams scored consistently in many of the criteria and it was the public art proposed by Perkins&Will that put it over the top.

Boyer said she likes the reflective chrome that would let people see themselves when looking at it and taking photos, something she said many cities are using in their art installations.

The outdoor art particularly sparked a "tremendous amount of public comment" with varying reactions, but "love it or hate it," the design certainly stoked interest and will prompt people to go see it after it's in place, said Downtown Investment Authority CEO Lori Boyer.

More detail on the scoring here, from Jax Daily Record (https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2021/jul/22/jax-sculpture-is-centerpiece-of-winning-park-design-for-former-landing/):

Quote
His and Boyer’s scoring sheets show Perkins & Will averaged 100 out of 115 points while Agency had 97.5 points.

Perkins & Will outscored the other two firms by eight to 10 points on the art piece, which Boyer said put the firm “over the top.”

The sculpture, regardless of one's personal opinion about it, was literally the reason why P&W was selected as the winner over Agency.

Eliminating/downplaying/shelving the art piece pretty much invalidates the entire year-long, half-million dollar design contest, while disrespecting the 13 firms and three finalists who put their blood, sweat, and tears into designing a park to the specs of the RFP.

fsu813

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #367 on: February 10, 2023, 03:16:53 PM »
Moot point.

Perkins & Will's design is fantastic.

Agency was chosen for Shipyards West.

And there is zero expectation that what is first rendered in a design contest without hard constraints will be near the final design. It was a demonstration project, more or less, to show what each firm can/would do, under X criteria.

Art will be funded privately, a deserved secondary priority to getting the actual park built/funded.

Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #368 on: February 10, 2023, 05:26:35 PM »
Moot point.

Perkins & Will's design is fantastic.

Agency was chosen for Shipyards West.

And there is zero expectation that what is first rendered in a design contest without hard constraints will be near the final design. It was a demonstration project, more or less, to show what each firm can/would do, under X criteria.

Art will be funded privately, a deserved secondary priority to getting the actual park built/funded.

Fully agree that the design of the park is fantastic.

In terms of the park space, it was my favorite of the finalists, and I think the latest designs for the park itself might even be better than what was originally presented.

I’m stoked for it to open.

Respectfully disagree on a couple of points though.

First, while there may have been no expectations that the initial round of 15 or so entries into the design contest would be anything more than proof of concept, that expectation did exist with the final three entries. We gave all three firms $150,000 in taxpayer money to create 50% designs of what the final park would look like. There were multiple rounds of Q&A on constraints, including budget, streetscape, private development, etc.

I’m glad Agency is designing Shipyards West, and I really like their design too, but the reason it’s not a moot point is because it reflects a bigger problem with how we treat developers and handle RFPs and development agreements that might be hurting our ability to attract more outside development during periods of economic boom.

I’m sure there are more that I’m missing, but looking at how the DIA’s RFPs have gone over the last 5 years:

- Convention Center RFP: Multiple firms bid; Jacobs brought 30 people for the pitch; Shad Khan raises a fit, the project is dropped
- Ford on Bay RFP 2: Multiple developers throw in, Spandrell is selected, project is abandoned
- LaVilla Townhome RFP: Johnson puts in what’s universally considered the best proposal; DIA chooses Vestcor and encourages them to use Johnson’s ideas
- Ford on Bay RFP 3: Multiple bidders put in; RFP prioritizes a development that will be built quickly; Hardwick wins and is giving a multi-year due diligence window
- Landing Private Development pad: RFP called for a priority on hotel and office space, winning bid is residential.

Again, love the design, but public art was a major part of the scoring for this RFP. I believe 20 percent of the overall scoring. Not conceptual, but at least 50 percent realized. P+W spent a large portion of their amazing presentation (best I’ve ever seen for an RFP response in Jax, by a MILE) speaking to the central art exhibit that would anchor their proposed project. The artist, Jefrè, came to the presentation and spoke very directly and very specifically to the piece that would anchor the park. He talked dimensions, materials, inspiration, and symbology. It wasn’t vague or conceptual, it was “this is the thing.” And it wasn’t a random sculpture tucked away in the corner of a park. At 160 feet tall, designed as a gathering spot and landmark, it was the central visual focus of the park.

The DIA, per their own explicit words, chose P+W at the culmination of a year-long process because of that central art piece. In the absence of that specific piece of art, the decision could very well have tipped toward Agency.

I personally really like the statue, but it’s far less about the art piece itself, and more about the city respecting the process, following through, and treating developers with respect. I just put myself in Agency’s shoes, to put in so much work and make it so close only to get beat out because of the art installation, only to have the DIA start backtracking on installing the art like two weeks later.

You can get away with stuff like that once or twice, but when every RFP turns wonky, you’re gonna burn the development community and scare people away from participating in your bid processes. There’s just so many examples of this happening in Jax. Not even solely the DIA. JEA wasting tens of thousands of hours and millions of dollars from other utilities in their “nevermind” privatization attempt. Curry bullying Toney Sleiman out of downtown by pulling permits and threatening eviction. Luring Related to the Southbank under the pretense that MOSH was rebuilding next door.

Love the park, the right partner probably won either way, just don’t love our habit of changing rules on the fly.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2023, 05:31:52 PM by Ken_FSU »

marcuscnelson

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fsu813

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #370 on: May 19, 2023, 09:52:57 PM »
« Last Edit: May 19, 2023, 11:19:39 PM by fsu813 »

Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #371 on: May 22, 2023, 07:57:28 AM »
Apparently construction on Independent Drive is set to begin next month.

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/entertainment/television/programs/gmj/construction-on-riverfront-plaza-set-to-begin-june/77-7c96d2b7-a2eb-427d-9b1f-15ff174e626f

I believe COJ expects the site will closed 2-3 years for construction.

If this is the case, the city needs to commit to getting Friendship Park on the other side of the bridge reopened before Riverfront Plaza closes.

Absolute incompetence and failure by both the city and DIA that Friendship Park has been closed for over THREE YEARS, with no noticeable sign of any day-to-day work going on there these days.

Charles Hunter

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #372 on: May 22, 2023, 05:37:53 PM »
Great planning, but typical, James Weldon Johnson Park, Friendship Park, and Lenny's Lawn will all be closed for construction at the same time. Perhaps the Fountain will open in July (but not for the Independence Day fireworks and festivities), but when will Phase 2 start?

fsu813

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #373 on: May 22, 2023, 07:31:16 PM »
Apparently construction on Independent Drive is set to begin next month.

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/entertainment/television/programs/gmj/construction-on-riverfront-plaza-set-to-begin-june/77-7c96d2b7-a2eb-427d-9b1f-15ff174e626f

I believe COJ expects the site will closed 2-3 years for construction.

If this is the case, the city needs to commit to getting Friendship Park on the other side of the bridge reopened before Riverfront Plaza closes.

Absolute incompetence and failure by both the city and DIA that Friendship Park has been closed for over THREE YEARS, with no noticeable sign of any day-to-day work going on there these days.

Phase 1 of FF park is supposed to open this Summer. Phase 2 the next year.

tufsu1

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #374 on: May 23, 2023, 12:21:42 PM »
Apparently construction on Independent Drive is set to begin next month.

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/entertainment/television/programs/gmj/construction-on-riverfront-plaza-set-to-begin-june/77-7c96d2b7-a2eb-427d-9b1f-15ff174e626f

I believe COJ expects the site will closed 2-3 years for construction.

so, if like past projects, you mean 5-7 years