Author Topic: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park  (Read 5830 times)

marcuscnelson

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2021, 01:03:06 AM »
^ It's the Jacksonville Way.
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CityLife

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2021, 11:26:29 AM »
Two of the shortlisted firms have very strong national/global resumes for downtown and waterfront projects. So do a few firms that didn't make the cut.
Agreed, the firms selected and some that didn't make it are very strong. I just hope they are putting their A or B teams on the project with the hopes that this can be a high profile project. A lot of them are design factories and it's an easy $125k for them win or lose.

It's easy to be pessimistic with how things have been going downtown, but these firms should be able to create some very impressive concepts. It's just a matter of how willing Jacksonville will be to fund it. I think the Landing was still salvageable and should have been repurposed before being torn town, but it can EASILY be surpassed with quality design and money thrown at it. 



thelakelander

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2021, 12:00:40 PM »
The firms mean pretty much nothing to me. The firm that did the 2015 design was a nationally credible firm as well. All can design and Jax has had plenty of things designed that look great on paper. Call me when we know how many millions the project will cost and we actually allocate and spend the money to build.

I think the Landing was still salvageable and should have been repurposed before being torn town, but it can EASILY be surpassed with quality design and money thrown at it.

When it's all said and done, I'd argue we'd end up in the same spot....but with years of the site being active in the interim. We could have easily kept the place open, had the same firms come up with designs for the site and ended up with something just as creative and unique and continuously occupied during the transformation.
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heights unknown

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2021, 01:01:36 PM »
Stoopid. A park...sheesh.
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Downtown Osprey

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2021, 01:51:04 PM »
Render-Ville strikes again!

Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2021, 08:17:59 PM »
$10-$15 million is what the city is budgeting for the new Landing park.

To be included in next year's CIP.

thelakelander

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2021, 09:56:52 PM »
So nothing on the level of the new $92 million St. Pete Pier? Closer in the range of Water Works Park in Tampa Heights.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2021, 09:59:17 PM by thelakelander »
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marcuscnelson

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2021, 10:26:49 PM »
Unsurprising that it's far less than St. Pete. Too busy expanding all the interstates and building pod cars.

Looking at Water Works Park, I see it's about $7.4 million for 5 acres. "Riverfront Plaza" is supposed to be a minimum of 4.5 acres. It certainly doesn't look terrible, but I don't know if it screams "iconic urban space." Most of the space does look to be just open greenspace of some kind, similarly to the Mayor's office drawing, and I wonder what that says in terms of activity. I also wonder how much of that money is budgeted for maintenance, because it does us little good to end up with a run-down husk of a park in ten years because we couldn't keep it clean and programmed.
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thelakelander

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2021, 11:10:22 PM »
Water Works Park is well maintained but nothing special. Those types of spaces are pretty common in cities, big and small these days. DT Tampa's main urban park is Curtis Hixon Waterfront Park. It was revamped to the tune of $43 million back in 2010. In addition to the cost of that space, the Tampa Museum of Art opened shortly after. Anchoring the park, it cost another $34 million. Another $21 million was needed to build the Children's Museum next to it. That's $98 million spent and I'd still say it isn't an iconic space. The Landing park likely won't be iconic, when compared to what exists in most cities across the country. However, it should be better than the typical Jacksonville park space. It's a high profile project for those involved.
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Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2021, 05:12:27 PM »
I wonder how much of that money is budgeted for maintenance, because it does us little good to end up with a run-down husk of a park in ten years because we couldn't keep it clean and programmed.

None.

The DIA plans to use incremental tax revenue, as well as a portion of any property taxes resulting from the proposed private development pads, to fund an annual maintenance budget for the new park.

They’re doing the same thing with the Related project (incremental taxes will be preserved for maintenance of Friendship Fountain/St. Johns Park to the estimated tune of about $150k a year), as well as the proposed public parks at the District. 

Wouldn’t be surprised to see similar arrangements with MOSH/Shipyards park and Jags/Met Park, assuming any of these things actually happen.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2021, 04:21:09 PM »
First step to Landing redevelopment is below.  All I can say is I hope they address the tidal wave of cars leaving after a show at the Times Union Center with either coordinated lights and/or JSO traffic control given the distance and intersection traffic will have to pass through to access the bridge (needs to also be done for access to the Acosta).

Sadly, we don't give the arts the same attention we give the Jags when it comes to traffic management and it hurts business Downtown as a result.  I have waited up to almost an hour to get out of this area (and the Arena area) after events/shows.  A real cluster.  This should also be addressed by Curry's Downtown "Fixers."

Following per FDOT:
Quote
Independent Drive Ramp to Main Street Bridge to Close Permanently April 15

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. – The Independent Drive ramp to the southbound Main Street Bridge will close permanently April 15. The closure will allow crews to demolish the ramp.

Motorists on Independent Drive seeking to travel south on the Main Street Bridge will continue past the ramp, turn left on Bay Street and turn left on the Main Street Bridge and continue toward their destination, as shown in the map below.
 
During construction, the west pedestrian sidewalk of the bridge will be closed. Pedestrians will be detoured to the east pedestrian access to the bridge. Signage will be in place to assist roadway users and pedestrians. 

Superior Construction was awarded the $584,000 project, which is expected to be completed in summer 2021, weather and unforeseen circumstances permitting.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 04:35:21 PM by jaxlongtimer »

Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2021, 09:28:44 AM »
Couple of details from the DIA's Q&A with the three chosen finalists, via the JBJ (https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2021/04/01/dia-discusses-second-phase-landing-rfp.html)

Quote
“You may put a significant amount of the budget into the art piece,” Boyer said. “We are looking for something that is memorable and recognized as ‘Oh, that’s Jacksonville.’”

A firm budget for the project has not been set, but the city has been using $12 million as a placeholder.

The aspect of the design that makes it iconic could be something that frames the view of the site from the river or toward the river or an architectural or art piece, Boyer said.

“Let me throw out an example: your art piece looks like the Chicago Bean, but it’s the Jacksonville version of something,” Boyer said. “It wouldn’t necessarily be tall and lighted and meet their criteria for the beacon element, but you could suggest that be placed on the adjacent site.”

One developer noted that a “recognizable” art piece is a “pretty commanding question to answer” without knowing a final budget. Boyer responded that a project that proposes something outside of the placeholder budget would be evaluated accordingly.

“We want this to be a memorable space, but if a competing team happens to come in with a very memorable space with a wonderful piece of art that maybe costs $3 million or $5 million and gets us there, that will be part of the evaluation,” Boyer said.

Boyer also made recommendations for the firms moving forward, including the nature of their designs related to the riverfront. She said that due to the bulkhead replacement, she recommended developers not design something that goes over the water that would significantly alter the existing dock or bulkhead.

Hmmmmm.

So we're looking for a memorable space, with an iconic design, and a preference for something that looks nice from the river, acts as a lit beacon, and instantly screams "Jacksonville, Florida."

Not easy to do, but I think it's possible.

Forgive my art skills, I'm more of a numbers guy, but I think something like this just might work to fulfill that criteria:


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Peter Griffin

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #42 on: April 02, 2021, 09:33:52 AM »
The horse is dead, Ken. No need to keep beating it

thelakelander

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #43 on: April 02, 2021, 09:44:39 AM »
Sorry KenFSU, you can't build something like the Landing for $12MM to $15MM. We'll also need more than a Jacksonville version of Chicago's Bean (which cost $23MM itself). I hope people pay more attention to Millennium Park and the sum of its parts than an isolated piece of art work. It will be a challenge to design a space that's really "iconic" for such a low budget. Anyway, wish them well.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2021, 09:47:20 AM by thelakelander »
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Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2021, 10:31:16 AM »
The horse is dead, Ken. No need to keep beating it

Oh, it's been dead for a year.

It's just baffling to me that what Boyer is describing as being a best-case scenario for this new public space is pretty much exactly what Boyer voted to spend $23 million to demolish.

Also baffling that we're speaking of this space as our crown jewel for redevelopment, yet constraining the construction budget to roughly half of the removal budget, including public art.

Equally baffling that - just like we did with Lot J - we're putting the cart before the horse in terms of removing a genuinely useful, popular ramp that serves as a genuine amenity for pedestrians before we even have a site plan for the new Landing or any agreements for private development.

Desperately hoping for a grand slam with the new Landing, but doesn't change the fact that this entire plan was devised on the back of a napkin by the mayor's office, with no public oversight or outside expertise, and has been loyally executed by the DIA - right down to the name and limited private development presence - with no questions asked.

I honestly do try to not be pessimistic, and I think there is some progress with the blocking the tackling, but between the new Landing, the new Skyway, parking decisions, and continued demolition, it's kind of scary how little has been learned from past failures.

Decisions we make on these projects today are going to dictate what our downtown looks like 20 years from now.

And when you look at the budgets for things like the Landing and the Emerald Trail vs. things like U2C and this goofy jail proposal that is still floating around, I don't know.