Author Topic: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park  (Read 5820 times)


marcuscnelson

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2020, 11:23:40 AM »
Sigh…

So apparently the Landing is no more, we're supposed to call this place Riverfront Plaza now. I'm sure that being the name used on the Curry drawing is just a coincidence.

And now we get to wait until the new year for the RFP to go out, then probably a few more months for designs to be made and submitted, then another month for the DIA to review and choose one, then another RFP for the commercial space, annnnnd it's 2030.
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thelakelander

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2020, 11:30:56 AM »
^LOL, the nightmare we warned would happen nearly two years ago is now upon us. As predicted, that demo set that site back a decade. Never discount the benefit of a shorter implementation timeframe when it comes to adaptive reuse of structurally sound public assets, no matter what the public official of the day will try sell you.

Could have easily had a food hall, brewery, event space, cultural attraction and/or other new uses already open in a revamped Landing, adding to the tenants that were already in operation, for less than it cost to buy, raze, dream more and wait. Now we're stuck with spending more money and time doing more studying and design concepts (seriously, how many more of these do we actually need?) and several years before there will be anything decent, funded and constructed on the site. In the meantime, our reality is a pretty dead space in the heart of the city. 

It's too late for this site and the Ford at Bay. I'm hoping we don't repeat these mistakes with the MOSH building and land when they vacate.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2020, 11:34:58 AM by thelakelander »
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Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2020, 11:48:23 AM »
^With you guys on all this, we should have just partnered with Sleiman on Landing improvements in the same way we're partnering with the Jags, but just looking for some positives in this mess going forward:

1) Even though I'd love to see a larger portion of the property set aside for mixed-use development, at least the DIA wants to ensure that the park element is worthy of the prime location, is soliciting multiple designs, and is letting the public weigh in. Per the article, they absolutely do not want an empty lawn fronting the private pads.

2) I think the DIA is onto something here as well with their plans for parks at Friendship Fountains/St. Johns Park, the Landing, the District, and potentially future development at Berkman II and Met Park/Shipyards. They essentially want to set aside a portion of incremental tax revenue from each development that has to be used solely for annual maintenance and upkeep of that development's respective public greenspace. I think this will go a long way toward helping these parks thrive.

3) Call me an optimist (I totally am), but I think we'll see construction start on the new Landing before we see construction start on anything at the Sports Complex. If the park design RFP goes out on January 1st as planned, we should have a design chosen by the end of Spring that would trigger an RFP for private development of the pads. FDOT starts on the pedestrian ramp removal at the Landing site in February and plans to be wrapped by end of summer. I don't think it's inconceivable that we see major work underway at the Landing by early-to-mid 2022.

Never should have come to this, but hopefully something good happens with the site.

marcuscnelson

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2020, 12:23:59 PM »
It's too late for this site and the Ford at Bay. I'm hoping we don't repeat these mistakes with the MOSH building and land when they vacate.

Problem is, little to nothing has changed that would prevent repeating those mistakes in the future. Curry is still in charge, and likely will be until 2023. City Council hasn't substantially changed, although Lot J might be breaking some backs. The DIA might be learning, based on some comments about the Related project by MOSH, but that's not clear yet. JTA is clearly not going to get their act together with a transit system that connects all of this in a rational way.

I worry that we're going to end up blowing half a billion dollars over the next two years in a way that doesn't present a cohesive vision for downtown or secure a serious future with the Jags, then elect Curry's handpicked successor and wonder why things aren't working. And then people will start getting upset at why we're spending so much money downtown and we don't seem to have much to show for it.
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thelakelander

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2020, 12:27:04 PM »
^With you guys on all this, we should have just partnered with Sleiman on Landing improvements in the same way we're partnering with the Jags, but just looking for some positives in this mess going forward:

1) Even though I'd love to see a larger portion of the property set aside for mixed-use development, at least the DIA wants to ensure that the park element is worthy of the prime location, is soliciting multiple designs, and is letting the public weigh in. Per the article, they absolutely do not want an empty lawn fronting the private pads.

Perhaps I'm too close to it. If I look from the window of my downtown office, 15 floors below I see a dead space that didn't have to be this way. I don't see many positives right now, just more of the same. It's all predictable because we've been here before. We spent hundreds of thousands on public engagement and plan by a more than qualified urban waterfront development firm to produce a plan in 2015. Dust it off and implement it. All this says to me is that the public wasted their time and money five years ago.

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2) I think the DIA is onto something here as well with their plans for parks at Friendship Fountains/St. Johns Park, the Landing, the District, and potentially future development at Berkman II and Met Park/Shipyards. They essentially want to set aside a portion of incremental tax revenue from each development that has to be used solely for annual maintenance and upkeep of that development's respective public greenspace. I think this will go a long way toward helping these parks thrive.

Yes, maintaining public spaces is a plus. Hopefully more funds can be allocated for maintenance but this is something that should be 100% expected in a thriving city.

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3) Call me an optimist (I totally am), but I think we'll see construction start on the new Landing before we see construction start on anything at the Sports Complex. If the park design RFP goes out on January 1st as planned, we should have a design chosen by the end of Spring that would trigger an RFP for private development of the pads. FDOT starts on the pedestrian ramp removal at the Landing site in February and plans to be wrapped by end of summer. I don't think it's inconceivable that we see major work underway at the Landing by early-to-mid 2022.

You're an optimist. Early 2022 is 13 months away. Nothing will be breaking ground that quick when the RFP for what amounts to a conceptual design competition hasn't even gone out. If any transparent amount of public engagement is included, that alone will stretch out the schedule by a couple of months at the minimum. We haven't even addressed allocating a good $50 million in the budget to pay for a decent space, getting council approval to spend that type of money, time associated with DDRB reviews, permitting with various agencies, etc.

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Never should have come to this, but hopefully something good happens with the site.

Something will happen. However, we likely won't be able to enjoy a finished product at this site until close to 10 years after Sleiman's buyout and eviction of the previous tenants. That's just the realist in me speaking.  When you go this route, things simply take time, regardless of whether its Jax, Miami or NYC.
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thelakelander

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2020, 12:29:23 PM »
I worry that we're going to end up blowing half a billion dollars over the next two years in a way that doesn't present a cohesive vision for downtown or secure a serious future with the Jags, then elect Curry's handpicked successor and wonder why things aren't working. And then people will start getting upset at why we're spending so much money downtown and we don't seem to have much to show for it.

I share similar concerns.
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bl8jaxnative

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2020, 11:04:27 AM »

So who calls the shots on the old site?  The land is owned by the city, correct?  That is why there's talk about RFPs in the future, etc, right?


And so DIA in this case is chiming in because they don't want the site neglected until something else occurs?

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2020, 11:42:21 PM »
You've gotta be kidding me. Lori Boyer needs to be fired. They all make me sick.
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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2020, 11:43:17 PM »
I just DON'T understand this analogy.
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thelakelander

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2020, 12:40:14 AM »

So who calls the shots on the old site?  The land is owned by the city, correct?  That is why there's talk about RFPs in the future, etc, right?


And so DIA in this case is chiming in because they don't want the site neglected until something else occurs?

The whole announcement is old news. This has been the plan ever since Curry and crew created this paper napkin sketch of their vision for the site before buying Sleiman out.

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

heights unknown

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2020, 06:48:05 PM »

So who calls the shots on the old site?  The land is owned by the city, correct?  That is why there's talk about RFPs in the future, etc, right?


And so DIA in this case is chiming in because they don't want the site neglected until something else occurs?

The whole announcement is old news. This has been the plan ever since Curry and crew created this paper napkin sketch of their vision for the site before buying Sleiman out.


Please. Yes, old news. Yes stupid news. Yes I am not over it.
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Florida Power And Light

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2020, 07:25:18 PM »
Public Use Riverfront.
Open green space visual scenery.
A rare accomplishment.

Jacksonville’s Gracious Front Porch.

heights unknown

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2020, 08:02:42 PM »
Sigh…

So apparently the Landing is no more, we're supposed to call this place Riverfront Plaza now. I'm sure that being the name used on the Curry drawing is just a coincidence.

And now we get to wait until the new year for the RFP to go out, then probably a few more months for designs to be made and submitted, then another month for the DIA to review and choose one, then another RFP for the commercial space, annnnnd it's 2030.
Annnnnnnd by then most of us will be near death dirt or pushing up daisies. Oh well, we can't stay here forever.
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marcuscnelson

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2020, 06:08:09 PM »
So it begins.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/documents-show-dia-wants-final-jacksonville-landing-park-design-by-august-2021

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Obtained through a Nov. 18 public records request, the draft outlines the process to select three teams to provide 50% of the public park design by April 1, 2021.

The RFP is part of the city’s plan to redevelop the former Jacksonville Landing property after the city razed the two-story riverfront shopping mall in May.

The DIA would set an Aug. 31, 2021 deadline for the top-scoring team to submit a final design that includes an estimated construction budget, according to the documents.

As expected, we'll be 3/4 of the way through next year before we even have a final design for the space. Although I imagine it won't look all that different from what Curry's office put out.

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DIA CEO Lori Boyer said in a Nov. 11 interview that she does not want to put the rest of the 6.8-acre site on the market for private development until the preliminary park/plaza design is complete.

And to top it off, we won't even start looking for things to put besides the park space until… I can't tell if that quote means April or September. So I guess we'll have some idea of what the entire place is going to look like… perhaps early 2022?
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey