Author Topic: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park  (Read 145121 times)

Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #345 on: February 08, 2023, 08:46:02 PM »
^Thanks for the additional details!

I really wish I was able to hear the Conservancy details, sounds pretty rad.

Any idea if an alternate (non-Zoom) recording was made?

Any updates on Met Park, Hardwick, or the Riverfront Plaza residential tower offered at the tables outside?

Jax_Developer

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #346 on: February 09, 2023, 08:30:03 AM »
Maybe they can reopen the rooftop park on the DT jail! /s

That thing needs to be moved...

heights unknown

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #347 on: February 09, 2023, 08:54:20 AM »
Maybe they can reopen the rooftop park on the DT jail! /s

That thing needs to be moved...
Yeah, move it out west towards (or past) Cecil Airport. With all of this fuss about Riverfront Parks, is Weldon Park (old Hemming) even of any real use or needed anymore? Free up that land/block and build something there in the heart of downtown Jax; we will have more Parks than we can handle very soon, especially and mainly on the window; the focus nowadays is on the Riverfront (relative to Parks) rather than the center or heart of downtown.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2023, 01:56:24 PM by heights unknown »
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Charles Hunter

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #348 on: February 09, 2023, 09:28:43 AM »
First, the former Hemming is now James Weldon Johnson Park - after the Jacksonville resident who wrote "Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing"
Second, a 'town square' in front of City Hall, and in the middle of the (hoped for) redevelopment of the area, is not wasted space. Every square inch of downtown can't be filled with mile-high buildings - besides, there are plenty of surface parking lots available for new towers (or even new short buildings).

Zac T

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #349 on: February 09, 2023, 01:03:03 PM »
^Thanks for the additional details!

I really wish I was able to hear the Conservancy details, sounds pretty rad.

Any idea if an alternate (non-Zoom) recording was made?

Any updates on Met Park, Hardwick, or the Riverfront Plaza residential tower offered at the tables outside?

Met Park seems to be in the really early planning stages as there was a table soliciting ideas for what people would like to see. The Hardwick at Ford on Bay had a table but I couldn't find anyone related to that project to talk to. As far as the American Lions project at Riverfront Plaza, negotiations with the city are ongoing but they seemed semi-confident that they can break ground in 2025 if all goes well.

Preston Hollow is planning an April unveiling of the art installation and pavilion at  Rivers Edge. A restaurant over the water seems to be a part of their plans as well. Further infrastructure work should begin in the next couple of weeks

Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #350 on: February 09, 2023, 01:14:36 PM »
Thanks Zac!

heights unknown

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #351 on: February 09, 2023, 02:01:29 PM »
First, the former Hemming is now James Weldon Johnson Park - after the Jacksonville resident who wrote "Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing"
Second, a 'town square' in front of City Hall, and in the middle of the (hoped for) redevelopment of the area, is not wasted space. Every square inch of downtown can't be filled with mile-high buildings - besides, there are plenty of surface parking lots available for new towers (or even new short buildings).
Second, my bad; getting old and wires get crossed at times. Not looking for mile high buildings bub (though I do like tall towers....they add character to skylines), and never said that. But put something more on those surface lots and empty lots to pack it in (including old Hemming which IMO is not even being used all that much), add density, and cater to not only the downtown crowd and residents, but all of Jax; something the people will have to come downtown for; got it? So calm down, shake off your umbrella, and put your shoes in the right place. It's all good my friend.
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marcuscnelson

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #352 on: February 09, 2023, 03:04:27 PM »
I'm glad to hear that the in-person experience was much better than the virtual one. Again, I'm not sure I'm ready to believe that this will all be competently handled, but of course that's for voters to decide next month (and in May). I just want us to get this done and done right.

I'm still not convinced that moving the jail is going to substantially change Downtown's fortunes, especially given the cost to actually accomplish it. The money required would be a lot better spent dealing with any of the other expensive issues Downtown and citywide.

First, the former Hemming is now James Weldon Johnson Park - after the Jacksonville resident who wrote "Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing"
Second, a 'town square' in front of City Hall, and in the middle of the (hoped for) redevelopment of the area, is not wasted space. Every square inch of downtown can't be filled with mile-high buildings - besides, there are plenty of surface parking lots available for new towers (or even new short buildings).
Second, my bad; getting old and wires get crossed at times. Not looking for mile high buildings bub (though I do like tall towers....they add character to skylines), and never said that. But put something more on those surface lots and empty lots to pack it in (including old Hemming which IMO is not even being used all that much), add density, and cater to not only the downtown crowd and residents, but all of Jax; something the people will have to come downtown for; got it? So calm down, shake off your umbrella, and put your shoes in the right place. It's all good my friend.

Infill is certainly needed downtown, but we're definitely not so pressed for space that getting rid of JWJ is needed or preferred. The money is definitely out there to make investments in building up the way so many other cities are, it's all about how we prioritize and strategize with it.
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Steve

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #353 on: February 09, 2023, 03:20:52 PM »
I'm still not convinced that moving the jail is going to substantially change Downtown's fortunes, especially given the cost to actually accomplish it. The money required would be a lot better spent dealing with any of the other expensive issues Downtown and citywide.

I keep hearing conflicting information about the Jail - are we truly hitting a capacity or facility end of life (downtown revitalization aside)?

Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #354 on: February 09, 2023, 03:22:20 PM »
I'm still not convinced that moving the jail is going to substantially change Downtown's fortunes, especially given the cost to actually accomplish it. The money required would be a lot better spent dealing with any of the other expensive issues Downtown and citywide.

Agreed. We've spent far, far too much money on subtraction already. We have more than enough land downtown. Let the limited resources go to addition.

Quote
Infill is certainly needed downtown, but we're definitely not so pressed for space that getting rid of JWJ is needed or preferred.

Also agreed. It's been a park/public square since 1857. Hopefully it's still a park/public square in 2057. Main Street Pocket Park, on the other hand, would be a great piece of property to offload to private development and get on the tax rolls.

tufsu1

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #355 on: February 09, 2023, 03:42:49 PM »
Watching the Zoom now. Came on at 5:30.

Unfortunately, they did an awful job setting up for a Zoom stream. They're sharing the video stream, but not the audio stream, and whatever way they're capturing the audio from the microphone is horrible.

The presentations started at 5:30. The first 30 minutes was for mingling

Ken_FSU

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #356 on: February 09, 2023, 03:46:01 PM »
I keep hearing conflicting information about the Jail - are we truly hitting a capacity or facility end of life (downtown revitalization aside)?

The jail/PDF is technically supposed to house around 2,200 inmates. I think we average closer to 3,000, peaking at like 3,500 in the early stages of COVID when we couldn't transfer prisoners easily between the PDF and state prisons. Not sure how that compares to other metros though, and whether the solution would be to build an entire replacement, or just find somewhere else to house the overflow (or, obviously, work harder on the real root of the issue).

In terms of end-of-life, the facility is only around 30 years old. We just put about $1 million into making it ADA compliant, and we also just replaced the entire HVAC system serving the prison.

Kinda feels like the same people saying that the jail is in desperate need of replacement are the same people saying that JEA would go into freefall if we didn't urgently explore privatization, or that the Hart Bridge ramps were badly impeding logistics into Talleyrand and needed to be removed, or that the Landing was holding back downtown development, etc.

One thing's for certain is that we need to make our downtown plans with the assumption that the jail is going to be there for at least another 8-10 years, minimum. It took SIXTEEN YEARS to study, plan, and build the existing facility. We're not going to snap our fingers, start construction of a half-billion dollar prison elsewhere next year, and be ready to move inmates and demolish the old prison by the time the Four Seasons opens. It's just not realistic.

Which is why it's frustrating to hear people casually putting plans for things like a convention center on hold pending the moving of the prison. One doesn't simply move a 3,000 inmate prison overnight. Logistically, it's probably the most complex project we could undertake as a city. And we haven't even explored it yet formally. Totally get the "move the jail" crowd, even though I disagree with it, but at this point in time, it's about as realistic a suggestion as moving the Main Street Bridge.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2023, 03:51:35 PM by Ken_FSU »

Jax_Developer

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #357 on: February 09, 2023, 07:00:33 PM »
Some things are worth the cost. And yes, that's exactly why the jail relocation is absolutely an important conversation now. The major redevelopment projects are set to come online before 2030.. So maybe we should explore something before then? Not to mention the land & social benefit.

"Let me build a $100M building next to the city jail." Said virtually no developer ever. This one isn't some talking point.. Incentives for every building? Well that's because there isn't a single Northbank project viable without incentives. Yet everyone cries when incentives are granted. I wonder why the Berkman, a Class A condo building for quality, is worth substantially less than the Southbank's equivalents.


thelakelander

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #358 on: February 09, 2023, 07:36:49 PM »
This conversation brings up a basic problem with downtown Jacksonville. The problem I see is that there is no unified community vision. People aren't swimming in the same direction, which ends up with us struggling to create any type of sustained synergy with the district. Count me to among the folk that question if spending $400 million within the next decade to move the jail is the right move from a vibrancy ROI perspective.

Maybe there is, maybe there isn't, but that's largely reliant on what we (the community, not a select few) want downtown to be from a vision perspective. Without being able to see the desired end game, I struggle to see why focusing on the jail would be a more valuable public investment, then....say flooding that same $400 million into a compact area of the Northbank core?

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Jax_Developer

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Re: DIA wants the Landing to start with a park
« Reply #359 on: February 09, 2023, 11:32:11 PM »
I don't inherently disagree with your take. The trade-off in that these incentives are stripping future Jacksonville of a large property tax base. And $$ is being spent now in other ways. Surely there has to be a more creative solution than no solution. Even if there was a long-term plan, I really think that would help get some positive momentum. My 2 cents.