Author Topic: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate  (Read 4877 times)

BridgeTroll

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #30 on: January 06, 2021, 06:59:33 PM »
I will be at the Supervisor of Elections tomorrow morning to change my party from republican to independent. The Trump nomination was the first straw... this bullshit today is the last straw. I'm done...  there isn't even a party that remotely represents me... but there will no longer be a R next to my name...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

jaxlongtimer

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #31 on: January 06, 2021, 07:01:26 PM »
Well… Was this dark American day worth it, John Rutherford?

Another great Monroe column calling it like it is.  OUCH!  But, it should hurt and Rutherford should feel the pain.  It's disgraceful how he has attached himself to Trump.

This excerpt hits the nail on the head:

Quote
... I also hope you [Rutherford] are taking a few moments to consider your own culpability in this dark American day. I hope you are writing a forthcoming public apology in your head, and that you are even considering the possibility of stepping down from your post. You are, simply stated, unworthy of the position.

You know what you and your colleagues have done.

You entertained the delusions of a madman, and you succumbed to his will. I won't repeat his name. You indulged his baseless conspiracy theories about a stolen national election, and you were at the ready to endorse his effort to remain in power despite having decisively lost the popular and electoral college votes. You were going to disenfranchise voters, John. These are real voters, who also happen to be real people, but they are apparently not real enough for you because they have a different set of values and a different vision for the country....
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 11:25:23 PM by jaxlongtimer »

thelakelander

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #32 on: January 06, 2021, 07:07:51 PM »
I will be at the Supervisor of Elections tomorrow morning to change my party from republican to independent. The Trump nomination was the first straw... this bullshit today is the last straw. I'm done...  there isn't even a party that remotely represents me... but there will no longer be a R next to my name...
From another independent, today has truly been ridiculous. The double standard surrounding this circus of hypocrites has been pretty disgusting.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

BridgeTroll

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #33 on: January 06, 2021, 07:12:34 PM »
Apparently party affiliation can be changed online. I am now an Independent...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

jsjax37

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #34 on: January 06, 2021, 07:36:18 PM »
Wife and I changed party affiliation this morning from R to NPA.  We are done with the uniparty political theatre on the national level, and the republican situation on the local level is beyond disgusting what with the JEA fiasco and now Lot J. Add to that all of the other stuff rammed down our throats the past few years i.e. Jacksonville Landing total destruction as opposed to adaptive reuse, demolition for the sake of demolition with no real plans, etc.

There is a serious lack of leadership in this city.  The last visionary leader Jacksonville had was Jake Godbold.  City after city in the South has passed us by.  Nashville, Charlotte, Tampa and Orlando were once peer cities.  Now we struggle to compete with Greenville, SC, West Palm Beach, St. Petersburg and Birmingham.

It's difficult to be optimistic about politics on any level, and I'm frankly tired of thinking about it.  Politics today seems to attract only sociopaths or those looking for personal enrichment or some combination thereof.  I now know that I am not alone with my disgust of partisan politics locally and nationally, and I am sure that there will be many others reexamining their respective party affiliations.  I don't see either of the major parties being a viable home for me at this point.  I am not a radical by any stretch, pretty much a middle of the road guy.  It's really a shame.

Snaketoz

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #35 on: January 06, 2021, 07:43:34 PM »
I am an NPA voter, as is my wife.  The only bad thing about being an independent is being unable to vote during the primaries.  Had I been eligible, I would have voted against Rutherford twice.  Such an embarassment. 

Snaketoz

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2021, 09:01:48 PM »
Just saw this quip after Sen. Mitch McConnell spoke out about the thugs that invaded the Capitol.  (Mitch is just as guilty as Trump for allow this scumbag to bamboozle this nation for 4 years.)  "Mitch spoke like a manure salesman with a mouthful of samples."

Tacachale

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2021, 09:46:01 PM »
I was an independent for 20 years. My father and most of my family were all Republicans. Earlier this year I and two of my siblings joined the Democratic Party because it’s becoming increasingly unlikely I can support Republican politicians again.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

jaxlongtimer

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2021, 11:26:36 PM »
Well… Was this dark American day worth it, John Rutherford?

Another great Monroe column calling it like it is.  OUCH!  But, it should hurt and Rutherford should feel the pain.  It's disgraceful how he has attached himself to Trump.

This excerpt hits the nail on the head:

Quote
... I also hope you [Rutherford] are taking a few moments to consider your own culpability in this dark American day. I hope you are writing a forthcoming public apology in your head, and that you are even considering the possibility of stepping down from your post. You are, simply stated, unworthy of the position.

You know what you and your colleagues have done.

You entertained the delusions of a madman, and you succumbed to his will. I won't repeat his name. You indulged his baseless conspiracy theories about a stolen national election, and you were at the ready to endorse his effort to remain in power despite having decisively lost the popular and electoral college votes. You were going to disenfranchise voters, John. These are real voters, who also happen to be real people, but they are apparently not real enough for you because they have a different set of values and a different vision for the country....

Rutherford, on First Coast News tonight, reaffirmed his position to support the objections to the election while condemning the violence at the Capitol.

Rutherford is going to the mat for a mentally deranged president (there is actual discussion of invoking the 25th amendment!) and is willing to fight the will of the electorate, even as his patron saint incites violence, acts dictatorial and threatens our democracy.  So much for a man of laws.  Hope voters remember this in 2 years.

JaxJersey-licious

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2021, 12:55:16 PM »
What has lead to the tragic events of yesterday was not caused or stoked by any specific individuals but the systemic wholesale default by an entire political organization. In 2016, the GOP realized that there was this potential well of untapped voters Donald Trump energized: Voters long disillusioned by the specter of politics and politicians dismissed by their party elites and ignored by pollsters. And all the party apparatchiks came to the exact same conclusion about this group that if you don't have candidates that match or exceed the rhetoric Donald Trump was espousing...THEY...DON'T...VOTE!!!

As a result, you have GOP politicians doubling down their loyalty constantly looking over their shoulders not just because they fear a mean tweet by the president but they can't rely on the national party having their back in a challenge. What's more disgusting is how the party encouraged having more moderate members to be primaried and monetized these battles raising funds in the guise of helping out these campaigns like a jerk encouraging a cat fight between two of his potential lovers and having people place bets on them.

So this leaves the John Rutherford's of the country stuck in this sad loop of sowing doubt on this election and democracy in general like that old Say No To Drugs video of that monkey feeding itself cocaine denying all other sustenance till it dies. And many have made analogies of Mitch McConnell undoing of his inactions to putting toothpaste back in the tube, but it's more like if the toothpaste was Aquafresh.

That's why I've always been in favor of open primaries. Both the Democrats and the Republicans have compromised themselves in so many ways and it's a shame that people like me and a growing number of voters that choose to have no party affiliation are locked out of this aspect of the democratic process and hopefully the betrayal of the Republican party to what should be fact-based, civil, and free of demagoguery will be a wake up call to how we elect our leaders in the future.   
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 08:46:38 PM by JaxJersey-licious »

Charles Hunter

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2021, 01:09:53 PM »
<snip>
That's why I've always been in favor of open primaries. Both the Democrats and the Republicans have compromised themselves in so many ways and it's a shame that people like me and a growing number of voters that choose to have no party affiliation are locked out of this aspect of the democratic process and hopefully the betrayal of the Republican party to what should be fact-based, civil, and free of demagoguery will be a wake up call to how we election our leaders in the future.   

I have always opposed open primaries, feeling that the parties should choose their own candidates. I have felt the answer to the parties fielding extreme candidates is to have non-partisan redistricting.  I have now come around. Having open primaries should lead to more moderate candidates, on both sides.  That said, not having experienced open primaries, how does it work? At the polling place, do you request a ballot from one of the parties and only vote in one party? Or, are all the races on a single ballot, so you can vote, in the exciting race for Dog Catcher, for your favorite Republican and your favorite Democrat?

BridgeTroll

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2021, 06:50:59 PM »

It's difficult to be optimistic about politics on any level, and I'm frankly tired of thinking about it.  Politics today seems to attract only sociopaths or those looking for personal enrichment or some combination thereof.  I now know that I am not alone with my disgust of partisan politics locally and nationally, and I am sure that there will be many others reexamining their respective party affiliations.  I don't see either of the major parties being a viable home for me at this point.  I am not a radical by any stretch, pretty much a middle of the road guy.  It's really a shame.

For me... this...
« Last Edit: January 07, 2021, 06:53:53 PM by BridgeTroll »
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

marcuscnelson

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #42 on: January 07, 2021, 08:39:39 PM »
Interesting to see this dialogue in here. It's truly shameful that Congressman Rutherford has decided to throw his lot with the seditionists.

As a result, you have GOP politicians doubling down their loyalty constantly looking over their shoulders not just because they fear a mean tweet by the president but they can't rely on the national party having their back in a challenge. What's more disgusting is how the party encouraged having more moderate members to be primaried and monetized these battles raising funds in the guise of helping out these campaigns like a jerk encouraging a cat fight between two of his potential lovers and having people place bets on them.

That's why I've always been in favor of open primaries. Both the Democrats and the Republicans have compromised themselves in so many ways and it's a shame that people like me and a growing number of voters that choose to have no party affiliation are locked out of this aspect of the democratic process and hopefully the betrayal of the Republican party to what should be fact-based, civil, and free of demagoguery will be a wake up call to how we election our leaders in the future.   

Moderates being primaried has been a symptom even before the Trump era. Look no further than the Tea Party in 2010, and the impact those elected officials have had on the GOP. Not to mention the odds that people like Marco Rubio will be facing Trump-style primary challenges in 2022 and beyond.

I have always opposed open primaries, feeling that the parties should choose their own candidates. I have felt the answer to the parties fielding extreme candidates is to have non-partisan redistricting.  I have now come around. Having open primaries should lead to more moderate candidates, on both sides.  That said, not having experienced open primaries, how does it work? At the polling place, do you request a ballot from one of the parties and only vote in one party? Or, are all the races on a single ballot, so you can vote, in the exciting race for Dog Catcher, for your favorite Republican and your favorite Democrat?

The biggest challenge with open primaries in my opinion is the increased risk of sabotage, by which I mean voters actively choosing the worst possible candidate for one party in order to bolster their own party's chances of success in the general election. Not to mention that it isn't a guarantee that non-party-affiliated voters are necessarily moderates, and might instead make it easier for unaffiliated voters even more radical than the bulk of the party deciding the nominee. Also, primary elections are often sparser in turnout anyway, which bolsters the likelihood of more radical candidates prevailing.

Personally, I'd suggest that ranked choice voting is a better avenue for producing more moderate candidates. It becomes much more likely that the more moderate candidates will be ranked later, which means as 1st-choice radical candidates are stricken by lack of broad popularity, those 2nd and 3rd choice ballots with broader acceptance (but not necessarily excitement) have a better chance of rising to the top.

It's difficult to be optimistic about politics on any level, and I'm frankly tired of thinking about it.  Politics today seems to attract only sociopaths or those looking for personal enrichment or some combination thereof.  I now know that I am not alone with my disgust of partisan politics locally and nationally, and I am sure that there will be many others reexamining their respective party affiliations.  I don't see either of the major parties being a viable home for me at this point.  I am not a radical by any stretch, pretty much a middle of the road guy.  It's really a shame.

(Full disclosure, active Democrat here) My view of politics, especially as I've become more active in it, is that statements like these can be at times a self-fulfilling prophecy. If we abandon politics to being the realm of the corrupt, only the corrupt will ever dare to try. Now, I'm young, and it's certainly possible that I'm simply being naive about a foolish endeavor, but I really do see it as necessary that normal people, good people, try as they can to make themselves heard. I think a saying for it is that "you might not care about politics, but politics cares very much about you." Jacksonville of all places is a pretty stellar example of this. Thanks to our nonsense election dates, turnout is very low, and yet the ramifications of those elections have been severe. From the betrayals of consolidation to the wholesale destruction of downtown, and now the massive giveaways to developers with Lot J, all things that affect our quality of living.

No matter the party, elected officials do at times need to be bullied into following the will of the people, and giving up on vigilance is perhaps the best way to ensure that they are not allowed to get away with not doing so.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

jaxlongtimer

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2021, 07:03:44 PM »
The outpouring of venom for Trump from all corners of the country is unprecedented other than for terrorists* or countries we have been at war with.

Rutherford will rue the day he associated himself with Trump and did so all the way to the very bitter end.

One can hope that our country turns its back on all the Trump enablers (watch out, like chameleons, some are already trying to blend into the new background) over the next set of elections and at every other turn possible.

*Some may already classify Trump in this category.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2021, 07:07:28 PM by jaxlongtimer »

marcuscnelson

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #44 on: January 08, 2021, 09:42:27 PM »
Rutherford will rue the day he associated himself with Trump and did so all the way to the very bitter end.

One can hope that our country turns its back on all the Trump enablers (watch out, like chameleons, some are already trying to blend into the new background) over the next set of elections and at every other turn possible.

Will he? Or will the Florida Legislature use their majority to draw him a loss-proof district that is happy to re-elect him in 2022? That seems to be a substantial question right now. We’re all going to see how this country, and especially Republicans, attempt to move on from the Trump era, and we are yet to see if that means true atonement, or falling face-first into whatever his brand of politics evolves into.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey