Author Topic: MOSH weighs relocating museum from its Southbank site in downtown Jacksonville  (Read 5391 times)

Steve

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The Museum of Science and History, best known simply as MOSH, might relocate from its longstanding location on downtown's Southbank, leaders of the Downtown Investment Authority leaders said Wednesday.

MOSH launched an $80 million fund-raising campaign in March 2019 to renovate and expand its 50-year-old campus near Friendship Fountain. But another option that's been evaluated by MOSH would be to build the museum at a different downtown spot.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2020/10/14/mosh-considers-moving-museum-jacksonvilles-southbank/3652710001/

thelakelander

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If the new site for MOSH was next to the USS Orleck and Berkman Plaza, would anyone here be for the move or against it?
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Captain Zissou

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Considering that the city owns the land, I'd rather MOSH stay where they are as that's a decent use for the space and ties in well to the fountain.  If MOSH leaves, I expect that site to sit vacant for years.

I would rather MOSH move somewhere close to JWJ Park if they were to cross the river, but if the Orleck happens that could be a good synergy of uses.  Around there is also the jail and the coffee plant which are very unfriendly to pedestrians/kids.

Adam White

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Considering that the city owns the land, I'd rather MOSH stay where they are as that's a decent use for the space and ties in well to the fountain.  If MOSH leaves, I expect that site to sit vacant for years.

Maybe they could put more apartments there.
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Steve

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If the new site for MOSH was next to the USS Orleck and Berkman Plaza, would anyone here be for the move or against it?

I'd have to think hard about it, but my first reaction is I wish they'd stay based on what I know today. On a positive note there's the concept around the Orleck, a potential Naval Museum, potential park space, as well as a few other ideas that have been thrown around like a maritime museum (we used to have one of them, remember).

That's a lot of "concept" and "potential" for my taste. The plans for that area of the Northbank are too in flux in my eyes.  MOSH isn't a concept or potential. It's been around for a very long time and is very well established. I get why some people may have gotten in MOSH's ear - it's one of the few true destinations downtown that is a truly regional draw for people, and if you're associated with any of the other concepts, of course it would be nice for MOSH to be right next door.

I think I get the idea - use the COJ parking lot at Bay and Marsh, and do some sort of structured parking there. That could support a ton of uses across Bay Street. If Berkman II were to be redeveloped into something that had anything other than a loading dock at ground level (i.e. Berkman I) it could connect. Longer term we know the Jail and Police building will likely be relocated, and maybe one day COJ can entice Maxwell House into setting up tours and doing a Coffee Shop.

All of that sounds amazing. Most of that is also crayons on a cocktail napkin, and no idea how to fund that (moving the jail and Police building) is likely $300M+.

Charles Hunter

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Doesn't all of that land need remediation? Who pays for that?
It seems the Shipyard site would be more prone to flooding than the current site. If they do move, the first floor should either be elevated about the flood plain (based on new climate change models, not old maps).
The Shipyards site will be inaccesssible when there is a game or major event, due to traffic.

I guess you can count me as "against" the move.

Ken_FSU

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To me, it's hard to be too firmly pro or too firmly anti in the absence of any type of master plan from the city.

My knee-jerk is to be totally anti, as the Museum/Fountain/St. Johns Park/Glass & Vine restaurant seems to be a good example of the clustering complementing uses within a compact, pedestrian friendly setting idea that Lake always champions.

If you remove the foot traffic from the museum, I think you're undermining the city's investments in Friendship Fountain/St. Johns Park and negatively effecting the viability of the restaurant that the city pushed for and is ultimately subsidizing.

To be pro, you need to make a lot of assumptions.

- Would it complement a Naval Museum? Sure, but how long have we been hearing about a Naval Museum being docked at the Shipyards? A decade?
- Would it be a good use of the Shipyards and complement the new Metro Park? Sure, but how long has that land been contaminated without any effort to make it suitable for use? Where's the money coming from to remediate for commercial use?
- Would it complement the new Berkman II plan? Same. How long have been hearing about Berkman 2 plans.

Northbank might work, if a complicated, expensive series of decade or decades delayed projects actually come together - an idea our history doesn't particularly support - but the Southbank is the proverbial "bird in the hand." They have the property. They've got the plan. Friendship Fountain/St. Johns park is funded. Related Group's development looks like it's going to happen. It's a lovely pedestrian stroll from the CBD.

I'm going anti.

UNLESS we're guaranteed an equally compelling use for the old MOSH facilities on the Southbank. Repurpose it as a Southern Rock Hall of Fame/Museum with concert space and events (I think they were already doing Southern Rock planetarium shows), for example, and I think it's an easier sell.


sandyshoes

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MOSH May Relocate
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2020, 12:18:17 PM »
It would be sad to lose MOSH, because not only was that a good field trip, but if they go, how long before the fountain does?  Even if they reno it, there would be a different demographic with another half-empty apartment building as the 'destination' surrounding it.  Very sad. That used to be prime School Field Trip real estate - we usually ended up at Friendship Park (circa mid 1960s - early 1970s) to eat our lunches outside, go climb the turret to view the fountain pump, then go walk around the fountain which would be turned on full blast.  Of course we'd throw pennies in and make wishes before we had to board the bus and return to school.  (I usually wished I was inside that nice cool water instead of standing there broiling...) I ate many a deviled egg sammie and potato chips by the river.    https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripideas/mosh-weighs-relocating-museum-from-its-southbank-site-in-downtown-jacksonville/ar-BB1a3PWZ?ocid=msedgntp


tufsu1

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If the new site for MOSH was next to the USS Orleck and Berkman Plaza, would anyone here be for the move or against it?

opposed. As this site has shown for years, clustering is huge. Fact is, even without The Landing, the core of downtown is Laura Street. MOSH is just across the river...an easy stroll across the bridge or a quick water taxi ride.

Steve

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To me, it's hard to be too firmly pro or too firmly anti in the absence of any type of master plan from the city.

Exactly my issue - I don't believer we'll see one anytime soon. Without it, I'd say no - MOSH should stay where it is.

Steve

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It would be sad to lose MOSH, because not only was that a good field trip, but if they go, how long before the fountain does?  Even if they reno it, there would be a different demographic with another half-empty apartment building as the 'destination' surrounding it.  Very sad. That used to be prime School Field Trip real estate - we usually ended up at Friendship Park (circa mid 1960s - early 1970s) to eat our lunches outside, go climb the turret to view the fountain pump, then go walk around the fountain which would be turned on full blast.  Of course we'd throw pennies in and make wishes before we had to board the bus and return to school.  (I usually wished I was inside that nice cool water instead of standing there broiling...) I ate many a deviled egg sammie and potato chips by the river.    https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripideas/mosh-weighs-relocating-museum-from-its-southbank-site-in-downtown-jacksonville/ar-BB1a3PWZ?ocid=msedgntp



In fairness, the apartments really wouldn't (in my eyes) make a difference on the experience you bring up about MOSH. I had that experience too when I was in school.

thelakelander

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To me, it's hard to be too firmly pro or too firmly anti in the absence of any type of master plan from the city.

Exactly my issue - I don't believer we'll see one anytime soon. Without it, I'd say no - MOSH should stay where it is.

It is pretty evident how it is clear it is to why we really need a downtown master plan. The future of sites/places like MOSH, a convention center, JWJ Park, etc. are exactly what would be included, transparent and clear within a good plan.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Wacca Pilatka

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This has me reminiscing on how Rouse's original plan for the Northbank involved relocation of museums and development of an aquarium to complement the Landing.
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marcuscnelson

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Yeah, Ken and Charles are on the right track, I think. If there was a really solid, ready to go, money's there master plan for say, moving MOSH to the Northbank next to the Orleck (which is ready to go) after remediation and the new Shipyards park, with maybe room for the JaxAqua proposal (which is also somehow ready to go) and that new Berkman proposal was somehow feasible and also ready to go, and there was a serious plan for what to do with the original MOSH site, then maybe it'd be comfortable. But the risk of supporting a box in a field with no real plan that ultimately doesn't complement anything else seems pretty serious.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

marcuscnelson

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So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey