Author Topic: DCPS board to reconsider schools named after Andrew Jackson, Jean Ribault  (Read 3516 times)

BridgeTroll

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I have a hard time with it too... however it seems in this day and age we probably need to remove as many triggers of this sort. I agree that no offence may be intended with many names... but apparently there are people or groups of people who can be offended to the point of violence and it just isn't worth it... including veterans.  This pains me because as a veteran myself I know vets have committed war crimes and atrocities.  Veterans are an example of a group of flawed humans that we should stop naming things after...

I find this entire thing sad... but it's where we are...

This is where I disagree. Just because an angry mob defaces something or tries to burn something down doesn't mean what they're defacing or burning down is wrong.

Again I use the example: the confederacy was a group set on keeping black people as slaves....to the point that they'd fight to the death to break the country up. That is very different than some people like U.S. Grant that kept slaves at one point but then gave them up.

To me under that same logic, there were plenty of people that fought to keep the lunch counters all white in Downtown Jacksonville. They didn't deface buildings or burn things down....they beat blacks in order to do it. If you asked those white people that engaged in the violence they would probably say they were triggered by the blacks sitting down at the lunch counter. Clearly this is a view that 99.9% of America would view today as bull crap and racist. But at the time that's what certain people felt.

If I understand... The  gist of your argument is that there is a line... or a limit to renaming or not naming things after flawed humans. I myself agree... but there is a large contingent who want Jefferson, Washington, Jackson, Grant, and others removed from their current status and "redesignated".  They are vandalizing and defacing monuments nearly daily with almost no outcry or resistance...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Steve

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(Not sure if the Buffalo Bills are named after Buffalo Bill, though - that's just a weird name).

Factoid of the day. The NFL's Bills were named after the AAFC's Buffalo Bills who were originally named the Buffalo Bisons, but were renamed after a short time after, yes, Buffalo Bill.

Steve

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I have a hard time with it too... however it seems in this day and age we probably need to remove as many triggers of this sort. I agree that no offence may be intended with many names... but apparently there are people or groups of people who can be offended to the point of violence and it just isn't worth it... including veterans.  This pains me because as a veteran myself I know vets have committed war crimes and atrocities.  Veterans are an example of a group of flawed humans that we should stop naming things after...

I find this entire thing sad... but it's where we are...

This is where I disagree. Just because an angry mob defaces something or tries to burn something down doesn't mean what they're defacing or burning down is wrong.

Again I use the example: the confederacy was a group set on keeping black people as slaves....to the point that they'd fight to the death to break the country up. That is very different than some people like U.S. Grant that kept slaves at one point but then gave them up.

To me under that same logic, there were plenty of people that fought to keep the lunch counters all white in Downtown Jacksonville. They didn't deface buildings or burn things down....they beat blacks in order to do it. If you asked those white people that engaged in the violence they would probably say they were triggered by the blacks sitting down at the lunch counter. Clearly this is a view that 99.9% of America would view today as bull crap and racist. But at the time that's what certain people felt.

If I understand... The  gist of your argument is that there is a line... or a limit to renaming or not naming things after flawed humans. I myself agree... but there is a large contingent who want Jefferson, Washington, Jackson, Grant, and others removed from their current status and "redesignated".  They are vandalizing and defacing monuments nearly daily with almost no outcry or resistance...

I definitely oppose those people. But I'm not sure how I'm supposed to resist defacing monuments. I'm certainly not going to get into defacing things or violence. And I'm really not in the mood to stand guard all night myself on these things.

BridgeTroll

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I have a hard time with it too... however it seems in this day and age we probably need to remove as many triggers of this sort. I agree that no offence may be intended with many names... but apparently there are people or groups of people who can be offended to the point of violence and it just isn't worth it... including veterans.  This pains me because as a veteran myself I know vets have committed war crimes and atrocities.  Veterans are an example of a group of flawed humans that we should stop naming things after...

I find this entire thing sad... but it's where we are...

This is where I disagree. Just because an angry mob defaces something or tries to burn something down doesn't mean what they're defacing or burning down is wrong.

Again I use the example: the confederacy was a group set on keeping black people as slaves....to the point that they'd fight to the death to break the country up. That is very different than some people like U.S. Grant that kept slaves at one point but then gave them up.

To me under that same logic, there were plenty of people that fought to keep the lunch counters all white in Downtown Jacksonville. They didn't deface buildings or burn things down....they beat blacks in order to do it. If you asked those white people that engaged in the violence they would probably say they were triggered by the blacks sitting down at the lunch counter. Clearly this is a view that 99.9% of America would view today as bull crap and racist. But at the time that's what certain people felt.

If I understand... The  gist of your argument is that there is a line... or a limit to renaming or not naming things after flawed humans. I myself agree... but there is a large contingent who want Jefferson, Washington, Jackson, Grant, and others removed from their current status and "redesignated".  They are vandalizing and defacing monuments nearly daily with almost no outcry or resistance...

I definitely oppose those people. But I'm not sure how I'm supposed to resist defacing monuments. I'm certainly not going to get into defacing things or violence. And I'm really not in the mood to stand guard all night myself on these things.
In the cities where the violence and vandalism is occurring local governments have shown a high level of either impotence or tacit approval... most citizens are silent to avoid being "cancelled"...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Tacachale

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I wouldn't be surprised if the pendulum swung the other way at some point, and there was pushback on these name changes. Not only because of the fact that most don't truly find things named "Ribault", "Jefferson," or "Washington" offensive, but because it's a focus on a mostly symbolic change rather than one that really improves anyone's life.

I'm mostly interested to see if the current students will get a voice in this change. Forest High went through after genuine community engagement. Will that happen here? Do we even have a sense of what the students want?
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Charles Hunter

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If DCPS follows its own rules, there will be community engagement.  Current students are just one of several constituencies to be involved.
From the DCPS Policy Handbook, Section 8.59 Naming or Renaming Schools
https://dcps.duvalschools.org/Page/9598
Quote
III.   Renaming an Existing School
A.   The Superintendent, any School Board member, or one of the initiating entities named below, may submit a written request to the School Board during a regular Board meeting, requesting the Board rename an existing school. An “initiating entity” is defined as:
1.   SAC of the school;
2.   PTA of the school;
3.   At least 75% of the school’s students;
4.   Alumni of the school (the minimum number of which is at least 75% of the school’s current student body population, as evidenced by a signed petition indicating the graduate’s name and graduation year)*; or
5.   Community members within the school’s attendance zone (the minimum number of which is at least 75% of the school’s current student body population, as evidenced by a signed petition indicating the community member’s name and address within the attendance zone)*.
*Note: The district will have no obligation to verify the accuracy of the petitions presented.

B.   Upon receipt of the written request described in subsection III.A. above, the School Board shall decide by a majority vote of the Board whether to accept the written request and refer the matter to the Superintendent for further review. If the School Board accepts the written request, then the Superintendent shall establish procedures for renaming the school, which include soliciting community input from the following:
1.   SAC of the school;
2.   PTA of the school;
3.   Students of the school;
4.   Community members within the school’s attendance zone;
5.   Members of the school’s faculty and staff; and
6.   Alumni of the school.

C.   The Superintendent shall offer to the School Board for its decision by a vote of the Board, either a proposed new name to the Board or recommend no change to the school’s existing name. The School Board may, after considering the submission of the Superintendent’s recommendation, accept or reject the recommendation, or request another name be proposed for its consideration, until the Board makes a final determination of the petition to rename the school.

IV.   Requirements applicable to naming or renaming a school:
A.   The name of the school shall not be of a person (whether living or deceased); and
B.   The name shall not be in conflict with an existing name of a school.

The Board initiated the name change process, so now they should be onto "B" where the Superintendent solicits input from that list of people and groups.  If I remember correctly, they held public meetings at Westside HS over that name change, as well as Public Hearings at scheduled Board meetings.

Tacachale

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If DCPS follows its own rules, there will be community engagement.  Current students are just one of several constituencies to be involved.
From the DCPS Policy Handbook, Section 8.59 Naming or Renaming Schools
https://dcps.duvalschools.org/Page/9598
Quote
III.   Renaming an Existing School
A.   The Superintendent, any School Board member, or one of the initiating entities named below, may submit a written request to the School Board during a regular Board meeting, requesting the Board rename an existing school. An “initiating entity” is defined as:
1.   SAC of the school;
2.   PTA of the school;
3.   At least 75% of the school’s students;
4.   Alumni of the school (the minimum number of which is at least 75% of the school’s current student body population, as evidenced by a signed petition indicating the graduate’s name and graduation year)*; or
5.   Community members within the school’s attendance zone (the minimum number of which is at least 75% of the school’s current student body population, as evidenced by a signed petition indicating the community member’s name and address within the attendance zone)*.
*Note: The district will have no obligation to verify the accuracy of the petitions presented.

B.   Upon receipt of the written request described in subsection III.A. above, the School Board shall decide by a majority vote of the Board whether to accept the written request and refer the matter to the Superintendent for further review. If the School Board accepts the written request, then the Superintendent shall establish procedures for renaming the school, which include soliciting community input from the following:
1.   SAC of the school;
2.   PTA of the school;
3.   Students of the school;
4.   Community members within the school’s attendance zone;
5.   Members of the school’s faculty and staff; and
6.   Alumni of the school.

C.   The Superintendent shall offer to the School Board for its decision by a vote of the Board, either a proposed new name to the Board or recommend no change to the school’s existing name. The School Board may, after considering the submission of the Superintendent’s recommendation, accept or reject the recommendation, or request another name be proposed for its consideration, until the Board makes a final determination of the petition to rename the school.

IV.   Requirements applicable to naming or renaming a school:
A.   The name of the school shall not be of a person (whether living or deceased); and
B.   The name shall not be in conflict with an existing name of a school.

The Board initiated the name change process, so now they should be onto "B" where the Superintendent solicits input from that list of people and groups.  If I remember correctly, they held public meetings at Westside HS over that name change, as well as Public Hearings at scheduled Board meetings.

Thanks, good to know.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

BridgeTroll

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Thank you Charles... :)
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

bl8jaxnative

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Years later after renaming Lake Calhoun to Lake Some-Dakota-Name-Even-Though-They-Took-The-Land-From-The-Ojibwe..... years after Minneapolis renamed the lake:

a) Shooting are up 140%
b) Murders are up 58%
c) Poverty amongst First Nationers is up 26%
d) Homeless......

well, ya.

What is in a name can be incredibly important.  92% of things that are named don't matter.

Adam White

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Years later after renaming Lake Calhoun to Lake Some-Dakota-Name-Even-Though-They-Took-The-Land-From-The-Ojibwe..... years after Minneapolis renamed the lake:

a) Shooting are up 140%
b) Murders are up 58%
c) Poverty amongst First Nationers is up 26%
d) Homeless......

well, ya.

What is in a name can be incredibly important.  92% of things that are named don't matter.

And I got indigestion yesterday, too. Oh, the folly of renaming the lake.

(It's Bde Maka Ska, by the way).
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

sandyshoes

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For your consideration and enjoyment:  It's the longest lake name in the world, with 14 syllables and a catchy little song to teach you how to pronounce it.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLtS-u32miY