Author Topic: DCPS board to reconsider schools named after Andrew Jackson, Jean Ribault  (Read 3128 times)

Steve

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Well....THAT escalated quickly.

The whole point of the comparison is that Bill Clinton, who I feel did a solid job as president put his name on a policy that would be unheard of 30 years later. I’m well aware it was an improvement over the previous.

My sole point was just that if we look back at historic leaders were likely to find things with all of them that would be considered abhorrent today-obviously some worse than others.

To lakelander’s point (and moving the hell on from whatever political dispute I unintentially caused), I think things like finding the $1.8M now to actually build out Lift Ev’ry Voice and Sing Park is an example of actually honoring our past and the folks behind it.

BridgeTroll

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And MY point... Vic, Steve, and Taca was we should clearly stop naming things after flawed humans and groups of humans... City park...Central park... Public school 1,2,3.  Let me add stop using mascots like rebels, Seminoles, redskins, chiefs, vikings, ect.  Hell... even veterans for that matter.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

thelakelander

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To lakelander’s point (and moving the hell on from whatever political dispute I unintentially caused), I think things like finding the $1.8M now to actually build out Lift Ev’ry Voice and Sing Park is an example of actually honoring our past and the folks behind it.

I was told the other day that this project was funded. I wonder what the overall price is? I always assumed it would cost more than $1.8 million. If it only costs $1.8 million, council and the mayor's office should find a way to get that in this upcoming budget instead of next year.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Steve

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To lakelander’s point (and moving the hell on from whatever political dispute I unintentially caused), I think things like finding the $1.8M now to actually build out Lift Ev’ry Voice and Sing Park is an example of actually honoring our past and the folks behind it.

I was told the other day that this project was funded. I wonder what the overall price is? I always assumed it would cost more than $1.8 million. If it only costs $1.8 million, council and the mayor's office should find a way to get that in this upcoming budget instead of next year.

I recently heard it was funded for FY21-22 (next year). And I agree....you'd think they should be able to find $1.8M without moving too many rocks.

sandyshoes

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Here's one thing that happened following the name change to Westside High.  Changing names may not be the cure-all.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/violent-fight-caught-on-camera-at-westside-high/716481912/







thelakelander

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Another thing happened too. Nothing else in Jax is named after the first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan who had nothing to do with the city's story. I'm the first to agree that changing names won't change the ultimate outcome of systemic challenges this city faces. We'll need to put real money and dedicate longterm committment in order to become a more inclusive city. However, there was no logical reason to name that particular school after a KKK figure unrelated to Jax or keep it it as the name of a school with a majority black student body.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

bill

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As a young man, Mr. Byrd was an ‘exalted cyclops’ of the Ku Klux Klan. Although he apologized numerous times for what he considered a youthful indiscretion, his early votes in Congress--notably a filibuster against the 1964 Civil Rights Act--reflected racially separatist views.

Adam White

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And MY point... Vic, Steve, and Taca was we should clearly stop naming things after flawed humans and groups of humans... City park...Central park... Public school 1,2,3.  Let me add stop using mascots like rebels, Seminoles, redskins, chiefs, vikings, ect.  Hell... even veterans for that matter.

I agree with you on that 100% BT.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

Snaketoz

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And MY point... Vic, Steve, and Taca was we should clearly stop naming things after flawed humans and groups of humans... City park...Central park... Public school 1,2,3.  Let me add stop using mascots like rebels, Seminoles, redskins, chiefs, vikings, ect.  Hell... even veterans for that matter.

I agree with you on that 100% BT.
Me too.  I think they should call Jackson P.S. 35.

Steve

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And MY point... Vic, Steve, and Taca was we should clearly stop naming things after flawed humans and groups of humans... City park...Central park... Public school 1,2,3.  Let me add stop using mascots like rebels, Seminoles, redskins, chiefs, vikings, ect.  Hell... even veterans for that matter.

I agree with you on that 100% BT.

To what end though? While I agree with you in concept about things going forward, trying to identify who is a "flawed" individual in the eyes of the year 2150 is impossible. What's to say that we don't pick a mascot that universally seems fine now and won't be fine in 150 years?

Where I differ on the confederate monuments is the intent behind them. Clearly there was ill intent when they were erected. Same with the naming of schools for the Confederate leadership (Jefferson Davis, etc.).

I really don't think that intent existed when it came to Jean Ribault or Andrew Jackson, despite their past (Jackson's in particular). I don't think anyone was actually thinking about trying to put down Native Americans when they did it. Again, the 1950's south when they named things for confederates was different.


Adam White

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And MY point... Vic, Steve, and Taca was we should clearly stop naming things after flawed humans and groups of humans... City park...Central park... Public school 1,2,3.  Let me add stop using mascots like rebels, Seminoles, redskins, chiefs, vikings, ect.  Hell... even veterans for that matter.

I agree with you on that 100% BT.



To what end though? While I agree with you in concept about things going forward, trying to identify who is a "flawed" individual in the eyes of the year 2150 is impossible. What's to say that we don't pick a mascot that universally seems fine now and won't be fine in 150 years?

Where I differ on the confederate monuments is the intent behind them. Clearly there was ill intent when they were erected. Same with the naming of schools for the Confederate leadership (Jefferson Davis, etc.).

I really don't think that intent existed when it came to Jean Ribault or Andrew Jackson, despite their past (Jackson's in particular). I don't think anyone was actually thinking about trying to put down Native Americans when they did it. Again, the 1950's south when they named things for confederates was different.

Huh? Just don't name schools after people. Sorted. Teams don't need to be named after people or groups of people. There are plenty of sports teams named after animals or other things. (Not sure if the Buffalo Bills are named after Buffalo Bill, though - that's just a weird name).

And no team needs a mascot. I don't think too many tears will be shed if those are phased out. That said, Mr Met and Phillie Phanatic seem harmless enough.

I do love this guy, though:

« Last Edit: August 10, 2020, 09:57:50 AM by Adam White »
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

Steve

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And MY point... Vic, Steve, and Taca was we should clearly stop naming things after flawed humans and groups of humans... City park...Central park... Public school 1,2,3.  Let me add stop using mascots like rebels, Seminoles, redskins, chiefs, vikings, ect.  Hell... even veterans for that matter.

I agree with you on that 100% BT.



To what end though? While I agree with you in concept about things going forward, trying to identify who is a "flawed" individual in the eyes of the year 2150 is impossible. What's to say that we don't pick a mascot that universally seems fine now and won't be fine in 150 years?

Where I differ on the confederate monuments is the intent behind them. Clearly there was ill intent when they were erected. Same with the naming of schools for the Confederate leadership (Jefferson Davis, etc.).

I really don't think that intent existed when it came to Jean Ribault or Andrew Jackson, despite their past (Jackson's in particular). I don't think anyone was actually thinking about trying to put down Native Americans when they did it. Again, the 1950's south when they named things for confederates was different.

Huh? Just don't name schools after people. Sorted. Teams don't need to be named after people or groups of people. There are plenty of sports teams named after animals or other things. (Not sure if the Buffalo Bills are named after Buffalo Bill, though - that's just a weird name).

And no team needs a mascot. I don't think too many tears will be shed if those are phased out. That said, Mr Met and Phillie Phanatic seem harmless enough.

I do love this guy, though:



Sigh....I understand what you're saying but I am having a hard time with it.

Also, this could solve the issue of go-forward, but it doesn't solve the issue of the past and renaming. For example, if you rename Andrew Jackson high school then the next call would be the city. That's not something I'm in favor of for many reasons, one of which is the astronomical amount of money it would cost. So every business needs to spend this money just because a group of people decide the city name should change?

BridgeTroll

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I have a hard time with it too... however it seems in this day and age we probably need to remove as many triggers of this sort. I agree that no offence may be intended with many names... but apparently there are people or groups of people who can be offended to the point of violence and it just isn't worth it... including veterans.  This pains me because as a veteran myself I know vets have committed war crimes and atrocities.  Veterans are an example of a group of flawed humans that we should stop naming things after...

I find this entire thing sad... but it's where we are...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Steve

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I have a hard time with it too... however it seems in this day and age we probably need to remove as many triggers of this sort. I agree that no offence may be intended with many names... but apparently there are people or groups of people who can be offended to the point of violence and it just isn't worth it... including veterans.  This pains me because as a veteran myself I know vets have committed war crimes and atrocities.  Veterans are an example of a group of flawed humans that we should stop naming things after...

I find this entire thing sad... but it's where we are...

This is where I disagree. Just because an angry mob defaces something or tries to burn something down doesn't mean what they're defacing or burning down is wrong.

Again I use the example: the confederacy was a group set on keeping black people as slaves....to the point that they'd fight to the death to break the country up. That is very different than some people like U.S. Grant that kept slaves at one point but then gave them up.

To me under that same logic, there were plenty of people that fought to keep the lunch counters all white in Downtown Jacksonville. They didn't deface buildings or burn things down....they beat blacks in order to do it. If you asked those white people that engaged in the violence they would probably say they were triggered by the blacks sitting down at the lunch counter. Clearly this is a view that 99.9% of America would view today as bull crap and racist. But at the time that's what certain people felt.

Charles Hunter

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To me under that same logic, there were plenty of people that fought to keep the lunch counters all white in Downtown Jacksonville. They didn't deface buildings or burn things down....they beat blacks in order to do it. If you asked those white people that engaged in the violence they would probably say they were triggered by the blacks sitting down at the lunch counter. Clearly this is a view that 99.9% of America would view today as bull crap and racist. But at the time that's what certain people felt.

I think your percentage is quite a bit too high.  After all, the current POTUS enjoys an approval rating of around 40%.