Author Topic: JEA headquarters to shrink  (Read 10011 times)

jaxlongtimer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 787
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2020, 07:42:53 PM »
To landmark, you'd need a sponsor and that would have to pretty much be the property owner/agent, HPC, the mayors office or a council member. Best thing to do would be to do the initial research of the 2 to 4 of 7 criteria needed for landmark designation and supply that information to HPC staff. If the owner is on board, it makes it a lot easier. The research to justify landmarking under the 307.104 would be the most important and time consuming aspect.

Sponsors should also include neighborhood associations that have registered/qualified with the City.  And, with Downtown having many significant and highly visible historic buildings, DIA should also be allowed to be a sponsor.  After all, they are an arm of the City too and have a vested interest in these outcomes to accomplish their mission of developing Downtown.

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31855
    • Modern Cities
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2020, 08:28:22 PM »
Yes. Our policies and how we work with them make demolition an easy option.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

heights unknown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1986
  • HEIGHTS UNKNOWN (DAMMIT!)
    • FRESH START SOCIAL SERVICES
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2020, 09:24:10 PM »
1. Definitely a building that will need to be proactively landmarked. Luckily, like the FBC Sunday School building and unlike Doro, it's already listed as a contributing structure to the National Register Downtown Historic District.

2. There should definitely be a push to make sure this is somewhere downtown and occupying a former surface parking lot, as opposed to taking out another historic building.
Or moving out to the suburbs!
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ACCESS MY PERSONAL FACEBOOK PAGE AT: https://www.facebook.com/garrybernardcoston.personal, or, access my Social Service Agency Facebook page if you love supporting charities/social entities at: https://www.facebook.com/FRESHSTARTSOCIALSERVICEAGENCY/; thank you!!!

heights unknown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1986
  • HEIGHTS UNKNOWN (DAMMIT!)
    • FRESH START SOCIAL SERVICES
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2020, 09:27:12 PM »
1. Definitely a building that will need to be proactively landmarked. Luckily, like the FBC Sunday School building and unlike Doro, it's already listed as a contributing structure to the National Register Downtown Historic District.

Going to post my own quote here.

Let's be radical here.

We're talking about lobbying for the city to designate these buildings as landmarks. Thanks to you, Lake, there's a list of buildings to at least start with.

So why don't we do what many lobbyists do, and in the words of Bernie Sanders, just "write the damn bill(s)?"

Here's a link to the most recent landmarking bill, for Mount Sinai Missionary Baptist Church.

Is there a group of people here who would be interested in taking this bill, and adapting it for each of the buildings on that list? I'm talking about doing the dirty groundwork so that all Council has to do is sign off. Who'd be down?

Quote
2. There should definitely be a push to make sure this is somewhere downtown and occupying a former surface parking lot, as opposed to taking out another historic building.

To be fair, isn't the point of an emergency operations center to be in a place that would be more immune to an emergency? Is downtown the safest place for that?
IMO because of downtown's history of flooding from the river during intense storms, hurricanes, etc., downtown is not a good place for it; however, there are places in downtown that I think should be considered, like LaVilla, Brooklyn (west end), etc. It can be done, rather than moving out to the suburbs on the southside; and I'll bet that's what they're thinking.
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ACCESS MY PERSONAL FACEBOOK PAGE AT: https://www.facebook.com/garrybernardcoston.personal, or, access my Social Service Agency Facebook page if you love supporting charities/social entities at: https://www.facebook.com/FRESHSTARTSOCIALSERVICEAGENCY/; thank you!!!

marcuscnelson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 983
  • Gen Z - Tired of the status quo
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2020, 12:43:19 AM »
To landmark, you'd need a sponsor and that would have to pretty much be the property owner/agent, HPC, the mayors office or a council member. Best thing to do would be to do the initial research of the 2 to 4 of 7 criteria needed for landmark designation and supply that information to HPC staff. If the owner is on board, it makes it a lot easier. The research to justify landmarking under the 307.104 would be the most important and time consuming aspect.

Sponsors should also include neighborhood associations that have registered/qualified with the City.  And, with Downtown having many significant and highly visible historic buildings, DIA should also be allowed to be a sponsor.  After all, they are an arm of the City too and have a vested interest in these outcomes to accomplish their mission of developing Downtown.

Yes. Our policies and how we work with them make demolition an easy option.

So the goal has to be making landmarking an easy option. Which is why my point is that what we should be accomplishing is making it so that all a sponsor, be a council member, HPC, and/or the sponsor would need to do is say "yes."

The reason lobbyists are so successful in government isn't just because they do some initial research, it's because they can walk up to a lawmaker and say "here's something that makes you look good, add your name here and vote here." (I know, it's more complicated than this)

Especially because it sounds like the Universal Marion isn't exactly favored for such status by JEA's board, we have to make it as possible as we can that it is harder to say no than it is to say yes to landmarking.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31855
    • Modern Cities
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2020, 01:40:33 AM »
I definitely get your point. We've successfully gone up against the lobbyist in the past on various initiatives. An effective way to fight is to make sure you understand the policies and work within that system by using it to your advantage. In the case of demolition of unprotected buildings, that's feeding staff the extra information they need prior to any development materializing on a specific piece of property. When you have the material to meet criteria, it becomes pretty easy to find the sponsor. It becomes more effective when you're tackling these random sites well before someone hired by a developer to lobby even enters the picture. We've got to get to them well before a rendering or new development proposal is announced to the public.

I think the overall goal would be to save as many unprotected buildings as possible. If a property owner is on board, it's pretty simple. You only need to meet 2 of 7 criteria.  When we got Allen Chapel AME in Brooklyn landmarked last year, that was the case. It may be the case with the Whetstonian, since the owner has given us approval to pursue landmarking. Staff is aware but I need to sit down and help them do a bit of the upfront research homework since they don't have a lot of staff dedicated to preservation to begin with.

If the owner is in opposition, you'll need to meet 4 of 7. This is where the community support will come into play. FBC is a good example of this. The good thing is Curry's demolition spree has already built the community support for preservation and there are quite a few councilmembers concerned as well. For sites where the property owner objects, preservation staff and those council members will need an open and shut case, plus community support. Those will have to be tackled on a case-by-case basis.

Luckily, since the JEA Tower is a contributing structure, it can't be randomly razed without approval by the HPC, regardless of what the new board members (who don't have an architectural or structural engineering background) may think. The ignorance is shown by calling a $65 million renovation job demo level. That building is probably three times the size of the Laura Street Trio and that's a $90 million job. I believe the Barnett (much smaller) was close to $55-$60 million.

At this point, they are probably just as clueless of the JEA building being a contributing historic district structure as FBC was with the Sunday School building. No matter what, the public will have their chance to fight any potential demo with JEA a year or two from now. So, I think there's great opportunity to spend the next few months helping HPC staff and building community support for the JEA Tower by sharing it's history in a way that aligns with the 7 criteria needed for landmark designation. On the other hand, the unprotected buildings that don't have to go before HPC for demo are the ones we'll need to work a bit faster on.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Steve

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3709
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2020, 09:19:44 PM »
JEA Board approved the smaller headquarters:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-board-approves-smaller-headquarters-will-seek-second-hardened-building

They also confirmed they're going to do a 40k SqFt "Hardened" building. While 2 buildings downtown might be cool....this thing sounds like it could be an unattractive bunker.

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31855
    • Modern Cities
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2020, 09:57:38 PM »
It sounds unattractive. Hopefully they can find a surface parking lot on a secondary downtown street to put it on. My fear is, knowing this town, they'll find a historically significant building to take out for their box.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jaxlongtimer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 787
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #38 on: May 21, 2020, 10:32:40 PM »
JEA Board approved the smaller headquarters:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-board-approves-smaller-headquarters-will-seek-second-hardened-building

They also confirmed they're going to do a 40k SqFt "Hardened" building. While 2 buildings downtown might be cool....this thing sounds like it could be an unattractive bunker.
It sounds unattractive. Hopefully they can find a surface parking lot on a secondary downtown street to put it on. My fear is, knowing this town, they'll find a historically significant building to take out for their box.

Repeating my comment earlier in this thread.  Maybe someone could explain to me why another bunker is needed.  Based on the location of the current center, it won't be near Downtown.
Quote
JEA already has a very sophisticated emergency operations center in the City.  I am not sure why they need another one unless they want an even more hardened building than the one they have.

heights unknown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1986
  • HEIGHTS UNKNOWN (DAMMIT!)
    • FRESH START SOCIAL SERVICES
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2020, 09:45:20 PM »
JEA Board approved the smaller headquarters:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jea-board-approves-smaller-headquarters-will-seek-second-hardened-building

They also confirmed they're going to do a 40k SqFt "Hardened" building. While 2 buildings downtown might be cool....this thing sounds like it could be an unattractive bunker.
Oh fiddlesticks!!!!!!!
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ACCESS MY PERSONAL FACEBOOK PAGE AT: https://www.facebook.com/garrybernardcoston.personal, or, access my Social Service Agency Facebook page if you love supporting charities/social entities at: https://www.facebook.com/FRESHSTARTSOCIALSERVICEAGENCY/; thank you!!!

heights unknown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1986
  • HEIGHTS UNKNOWN (DAMMIT!)
    • FRESH START SOCIAL SERVICES
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #40 on: May 22, 2020, 09:47:01 PM »
It sounds unattractive. Hopefully they can find a surface parking lot on a secondary downtown street to put it on. My fear is, knowing this town, they'll find a historically significant building to take out for their box.
Yeah; they're scared to build anything new or unusual that will improve the skyline; and no, I'm not talking necessarily tall though I love tall buildings; but those just doesn't suit Jacksonville.
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ACCESS MY PERSONAL FACEBOOK PAGE AT: https://www.facebook.com/garrybernardcoston.personal, or, access my Social Service Agency Facebook page if you love supporting charities/social entities at: https://www.facebook.com/FRESHSTARTSOCIALSERVICEAGENCY/; thank you!!!

marcuscnelson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 983
  • Gen Z - Tired of the status quo
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2020, 05:37:32 AM »
Here it is.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/downtown-development-review-board-signs-off-on-smaller-jea-headquarters-downtown

They kept the design and lopped some floors off. There's extra retail space under the parking garage (7,170 sq ft to 10,690 sq ft) which has rounded corners now.

Some choice quotes:

Quote
The board approved a larger JEA headquarters in December, with an estimated construction cost of $78 million and 200,000 square feet of space. The latest version would cost $64 million to $68 million to build.

Quote
To increase space efficiency, Ryan staff architect Jon Jay said an outdoor terrace planned for the sixth floor was removed and replaced with office space, and space was reduced for the seventh-floor outdoor terrace.

Quote
The new headquarters will house about 784 JEA employees. About 200-220 workers will work at the 40,000-square-foot facility.

So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31855
    • Modern Cities
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2020, 08:34:41 AM »
I didn't get the presentation in advance. I'll follow up and post the full thing here, so everyone will have a better understanding of what's planned.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Steve

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3709
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2020, 09:41:37 AM »
I'd like to see how the retail space was increased. Sometimes retail space is shown on a rendering but it's not a very practical use. If it is all truly useable, then that's certainly a positive.

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31855
    • Modern Cities
Re: JEA headquarters to shrink
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2020, 10:16:44 AM »
Yeah, I'm interested to see if there's more retail frontage on Adams Street. It's one of the few corridors left in downtown where you have continuous blocks of interactive pedestrian scaled places along the sidewalks instead of blank walls and surface parking lots.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali