Author Topic: Berkman Getting Close....Again  (Read 8989 times)

downtownbrown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 590
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #60 on: November 25, 2020, 10:58:46 AM »
Workers in Berkman 2 this morning.  Looks like this implosion might actually happen!

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31855
    • Modern Cities
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #61 on: January 12, 2021, 07:48:55 AM »
No more implosion but Curry will get him a crane in the sky for the demolition.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/berkman-plaza-ii-headed-for-conventional-demolition-not-implosion
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Peter Griffin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #62 on: January 12, 2021, 08:29:07 AM »
I was wondering when action would be taken on this. It struck me the other day when I was crossing the river to see the Berkman II skeleton hanging in the skyline that it would be odd to stump for the construction of a new district with a never-finished structure just a mile away, within line-of-sight of the new project.

BridgeTroll

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13595
  • The average person thinks he isnt
    • London Bridge Pub
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #63 on: January 12, 2021, 01:24:08 PM »
The new section of the Riverwalk there from the hotel and around Berkman is nice...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

tufsu1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #64 on: January 12, 2021, 02:26:17 PM »
The new section of the Riverwalk there from the hotel and around Berkman is nice...

umm no - try sitting down at a bench and let me know what you see

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31855
    • Modern Cities
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #65 on: January 12, 2021, 02:51:47 PM »
LOL....concrete and a missed opportunity to tie the Hyatt's ground floor bars and restaurants into the space.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

heights unknown

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1986
  • HEIGHTS UNKNOWN (DAMMIT!)
    • FRESH START SOCIAL SERVICES
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #66 on: January 12, 2021, 06:12:59 PM »
LOL....concrete and a missed opportunity to tie the Hyatt's ground floor bars and restaurants into the space.
LOL...someone is from MacClenny if they think that's nice.
PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ACCESS MY PERSONAL FACEBOOK PAGE AT: https://www.facebook.com/garrybernardcoston.personal, or, access my Social Service Agency Facebook page if you love supporting charities/social entities at: https://www.facebook.com/FRESHSTARTSOCIALSERVICEAGENCY/; thank you!!!

BridgeTroll

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13595
  • The average person thinks he isnt
    • London Bridge Pub
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #67 on: January 12, 2021, 07:38:16 PM »
Wow...I certainly wasn't commenting on the building.   The Riverwalk extension from Hyatt to Berkman around the former bridge/parking lot is a huge improvement.  Great view of the river... not sure what Maclenny has to do with anything... if not the Riverwalk then what lakelander... tufsu... and heights???
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

tufsu1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11153
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #68 on: January 14, 2021, 01:06:13 PM »
^ problem is there's no view of the river when sitting down. The whole thing seems to have been over-engineered and sterile. That's fine for the "under-carriage" infrastructure, but its a missed opportunity at street level. Maybe that will change over time, but IMO what was there before was better.

oh, and the City seems to have decided to leave the connecting block incomplete - and wait on the proposed development (which may never come).

fieldafm

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #69 on: January 14, 2021, 01:31:39 PM »
Wow...I certainly wasn't commenting on the building.   The Riverwalk extension from Hyatt to Berkman around the former bridge/parking lot is a huge improvement.  Great view of the river... not sure what Maclenny has to do with anything... if not the Riverwalk then what lakelander... tufsu... and heights???

There are large concrete barricades along the Riverwalk in front of the Hyatt and Berkman, pictured here:

 



If you are sitting in the outdoor dining section at Morton's inside the Hyatt, you stare into a concrete wall. You used to stare into transparent fencing like the rest of the Riverwalk.

If the Ford on Bay project ever moves forward, the developer would be required to complete their portion of the Riverwalk. Due to massive cost overruns on the Liberty Street project that shored up the failing bulkhead and also removed the overwater parking deck, the City chose to not complete the Riverwalk between the Hyatt and Berkman, and chose to instead wait on whatever developer would build on the old Courthouse/City Hall site.  Whether the Ford on Bay project moves forward, appears to still be in limbo... so we're stuck with a gap in the Riverwalk for the foreseeable future, seen here:



I guess you could criticize the City for the Riverwalk extension... however I understand the logic behind it. On the Chamber trip to Toronto a few years back, public officials there talked quite a bit about how requiring developers to pay for the public access portion of their waterfront development was a key piece missing from their waterfront revitalization plan/  The City, and specifically then-Councilwoman and now-DIA head Lori Boyer... decided to adopt that policy.  I agree with that reasoning, and so I won't get too bent out of shape about the gap in the Riverwalk.

However, putting up concrete barriers along with Riverwalk has nothing to do with that aforementioned policy procedure.  Those concrete walls along the Riverwalk are inexcusable.

To tufsu1's point, the new streetscape along Coastline and Market Street is way overengineered.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 01:43:14 PM by fieldafm »

Peter Griffin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #70 on: January 14, 2021, 01:44:07 PM »
Better to have a concrete wall than someone drowning in the river because they accidentally drove off the side of the bulkhead


fieldafm

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #71 on: January 14, 2021, 01:47:16 PM »
Better to have a concrete wall than someone drowning in the river because they accidentally drove off the side of the bulkhead

I guess the fencing that had been installed when the Riverwalk was built in the 1980's was somehow inviting motorists to drive into the river?  Never once saw that happen, but then again its not like that area hadn't been a large parking lot since the 1960's or anything.. so the sample size for motorists driving into the river is not very large.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 01:49:16 PM by fieldafm »

Peter Griffin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #72 on: January 14, 2021, 02:00:48 PM »
Better to have a concrete wall than someone drowning in the river because they accidentally drove off the side of the bulkhead

I guess the fencing that had been installed when the Riverwalk was built in the 1980's was somehow inviting motorists to drive into the river?  Never once saw that happen, but then again its not like that area hadn't been a large parking lot since the 1960's or anything.. so the sample size for motorists driving into the river is not very large.

Well, then, since you never saw it it never happened! Guess they built an expensive concrete wall for absolutely no reason at all, they just wanted to really mess up those precious sight lines to the river. Couldn't possibly be that safety standards have improved since the fencing was installed in the 1980's, or that it is a valid concern considering this is a public street abutting the river and not a private access-controlled parking lot as it was. Plus, as you noted, lack of fatalities in a particular location gives us carte blanche to design unsafe public spaces so long as nobody has been killed by it yet!







fieldafm

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4418
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #73 on: January 14, 2021, 02:08:54 PM »
Better to have a concrete wall than someone drowning in the river because they accidentally drove off the side of the bulkhead

I guess the fencing that had been installed when the Riverwalk was built in the 1980's was somehow inviting motorists to drive into the river?  Never once saw that happen, but then again its not like that area hadn't been a large parking lot since the 1960's or anything.. so the sample size for motorists driving into the river is not very large.

Well, then, since you never saw it it never happened! Guess they built an expensive concrete wall for absolutely no reason at all, they just wanted to really mess up those precious sight lines to the river. Couldn't possibly be that safety standards have improved since the fencing was installed in the 1980's, or that it is a valid concern considering this is a public street abutting the river and not a private access-controlled parking lot as it was. Plus, as you noted, lack of fatalities in a particular location gives us carte blanche to design unsafe public spaces so long as nobody has been killed by it yet!

You must work for GAI?

As far as 'private access-controlled parking lot as it was', sorry no. Coastline Drive has been in existence since before my father was born.

« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 05:37:50 PM by fieldafm »

Peter Griffin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 291
Re: Berkman Getting Close....Again
« Reply #74 on: January 14, 2021, 02:12:06 PM »
Better to have a concrete wall than someone drowning in the river because they accidentally drove off the side of the bulkhead

I guess the fencing that had been installed when the Riverwalk was built in the 1980's was somehow inviting motorists to drive into the river?  Never once saw that happen, but then again its not like that area hadn't been a large parking lot since the 1960's or anything.. so the sample size for motorists driving into the river is not very large.

Well, then, since you never saw it it never happened! Guess they built an expensive concrete wall for absolutely no reason at all, they just wanted to really mess up those precious sight lines to the river. Couldn't possibly be that safety standards have improved since the fencing was installed in the 1980's, or that it is a valid concern considering this is a public street abutting the river and not a private access-controlled parking lot as it was. Plus, as you noted, lack of fatalities in a particular location gives us carte blanche to design unsafe public spaces so long as nobody has been killed by it yet!

You must work for GAI?

Nope, but nice try. I just know a potential safety issue when I see one.