Author Topic: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?  (Read 1718 times)

thelakelander

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Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« on: January 23, 2020, 01:59:33 PM »
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Advocates have long used a population of 10,000 as the benchmark Downtown Jacksonville must reach to achieve vibrancy. However, this figure leaves out the importance of population density - Downtown Jax is so massive that even 10,000 people won't provide the density needed for true vibrancy.

Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/will-10k-residents-really-revitalize-downtown-jax/
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

JeffreyS

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2020, 02:13:34 PM »
I really wish they could get the Brooklyn sky way station open.  Connecting LaVilla and the DT core to grocery and some of the restaurant chains people have elsewhere in the city.  Also it would further connect new growing residential population of Brooklyn to the amenities of DT.  I feel like Lavilla is the big opportunity right now to keep linking the chain.
Lenny Smash

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2020, 02:35:25 PM »
I really wish they could get the Brooklyn sky way station open.  Connecting LaVilla and the DT core to grocery and some of the restaurant chains people have elsewhere in the city.  Also it would further connect new growing residential population of Brooklyn to the amenities of DT.  I feel like Lavilla is the big opportunity right now to keep linking the chain.

This is a great wish, and I share it with you. This would allow DT residents to shop at Fresh Market easily, and would allow Brooklyn residents to walk (and ride) to visit DT attractions.

J Random Sucker

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2020, 04:03:54 PM »
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Advocates have long used a population of 10,000 as the benchmark Downtown Jacksonville must reach to achieve vibrancy.

Anybody have current DT population figures?

Steve

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2020, 04:14:45 PM »
This is an issue that most readers here know, but this REALLY articulates the point well. Nice job.

Captain Zissou

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 05:18:58 PM »
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Advocates have long used a population of 10,000 as the benchmark Downtown Jacksonville must reach to achieve vibrancy.

Anybody have current DT population figures?

It's stated many times in the article... 4,800.  Did you read the article?

jcjohnpaint

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 05:39:38 PM »
Skyway ridership has improved a lot.  Every time I drive past their cars always have people in them now. 

J Random Sucker

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 05:53:17 PM »

It's stated many times in the article... 4,800.  Did you read the article?

Um... guilty, as charged.

Somehow I skipped right over the link; just noticed the picture and "10,000" figure  in the quote block.

I'll do better, next time.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 05:55:12 PM by J Random Sucker »

MusicMan

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2020, 08:55:35 PM »
My humble opinion....it matters what the next 5,200 residents earn.  If they earn north of $50,000 that will help a lot. If they earn $35,000 (or less) then not so much.  IMO if they have disposable income to spend downtown that makes all the difference. If they don't then the restaurant initiative Lori Boyer is hoping for (along with other economic growth) will come along a lot slower....

Bativac

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2020, 09:38:24 PM »
As the article mentions, Greenville really did this right. Their downtown feels like the downtown of a much bigger city.

Jax isn't going to have much luck unless and until they are able to turn downtown into more of a destination. My friends who live "in" Greenville actually live outside the city but drive into DT Greenville on Friday nights and weekends.

As this site has said many times, the idea of some giant mega-development being a catalyst just isn't it. It's expensive (given the incentives the city offers); the big ideas almost never pan out; and you never want all your eggs in one basket.

Yeah, it matters what the residents earn. But it matters more that there are things downtown drawing people there, and the kind of folks with the time and desire to be out having a good time, walking or Skyway-ing from place to place. Doesn't seem difficult but Jax doesn't seem to get it.

thelakelander

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2020, 10:36:24 PM »
My humble opinion....it matters what the next 5,200 residents earn.  If they earn north of $50,000 that will help a lot. If they earn $35,000 (or less) then not so much.  IMO if they have disposable income to spend downtown that makes all the difference. If they don't then the restaurant initiative Lori Boyer is hoping for (along with other economic growth) will come along a lot slower....

Density would still play a role on the built environment. If that 5,200 is spread out evenly over 4 square miles, they'll drive and those trips will likely take them to neighborhoods outside of downtown just as much as they will to another spot 3 miles away on the other side of downtown. If that 5,200 is concentrated, they'll likely be surrounded by multiple businesses within walking distance. If it's concentrated and that critical mass is established, it will pull people from surrounding areas the same way that Riverside and San Marco's cluster of businesses do today. What the residents earn would play a real strong role in the type of businesses. You'll either get a Dollar General or DGX.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 10:38:38 PM by thelakelander »
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bill

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2020, 12:05:42 AM »
How would you propose density?

thelakelander

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2020, 07:06:43 AM »
Probably similar to how the rest of the cities have done it.

1. Develop a master plan for upgrading parks, public infrastructure, pumping activity into city owned catalytic sites (including RFPing them), modifying zoning, coordinating with other agencies, etc. and start implementing it.

2. Use incentives to address adaptive reuse/infill at key catalytic sites. What Lori Boyer is doing with the restaurant program is an example for clustering small businesses.

3. Pounce on private sector opportunities to strengthen the area when they present themselves. Reuse of the Landing, getting Brumos Collection downtown, VyStar coming downtown, JEA building a new headquarters, etc. are all examples of opportunities that have presented themselves over the last year or two. Some we've succeeded on or have dropped in our laps. Others, we missed and struck out on.

4. When projects do take place, ensure that they follow pedestrian friendly design guidelines.

Much of this isn't difficult with political support. Part of this means understanding that the finished product will be developed incrementally.
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vicupstate

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2020, 11:14:52 AM »
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Downtown Greenville Size: 1.84 square miles: Population: 2,257 Population density: 1,254 people per square mile

I realize this figure is sourced, but it must be pretty out of date just the same.

As of now, there are just under 2,600 apartment UNITS. Obviously each unit has at least one person and probably 40-60% have two or more.  That number is only including 'complexes' with between 22 and 365 units apiece. It doesn't include 2nd, 3rd, etc. floor units that are over retail stores. Nor does it include ownership units which would probably add another 1,000 residents give or take.

All that said, the permanent residents are only a fraction of the people that are down here day or night. Most people travel in for business or leisure. 
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vicupstate

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2020, 11:18:23 AM »
My humble opinion....it matters what the next 5,200 residents earn.  If they earn north of $50,000 that will help a lot. If they earn $35,000 (or less) then not so much.  IMO if they have disposable income to spend downtown that makes all the difference. If they don't then the restaurant initiative Lori Boyer is hoping for (along with other economic growth) will come along a lot slower....

I agree. A lot of the residents that are already in DT Jax are residents of the Cathedral projects. Their disposal income is low and their presence does not give much incentive for businesses to come in.
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln