Author Topic: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?  (Read 1734 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2020, 11:28:00 AM »
^I'd be surprised if the Cathedral residents are more than 1,000. They at least have a Harvey's, Family Dollar, McDonald's and 7-Eleven within walking distance. The Northbank's number of residents hasn't really changed much since Metropolitan Lofts came online in the early 2000s. I actually can't think of one residential project in the Northbank that has been completed within the last decade. All of downtown's residential recent growth (2000s since the real estate crash) has been in either Brooklyn, LaVilla or the Southbank.
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fieldafm

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2020, 12:52:16 PM »
^I'd be surprised if the Cathedral residents are more than 1,000. They at least have a Harvey's, Family Dollar, McDonald's and 7-Eleven within walking distance. The Northbank's number of residents hasn't really changed much since Metropolitan Lofts came online in the early 2000s. I actually can't think of one residential project in the Northbank that has been completed within the last decade. All of downtown's residential recent growth (2000s since the real estate crash) has been in either Brooklyn, LaVilla or the Southbank.

Cathedral District residential count is much lower than 1k.

The only new residential units that have come online in the Northbank since 2006, have been from the Barnett Bank building rehab (107 market rate units) and the former Lerner Building rehab (58 college student communal suites configured in 3 and 4 bedroom layouts).

My humble opinion....it matters what the next 5,200 residents earn. 


Affordable housing is not the boogeyman many fear. In fact, Downtown Jax worked A LOT better when it was surrounded by true affordable housing options.

Businesses need labor of all skill and income levels. It's very difficult for a restaurant (or fill in any other business here) to find good and reliable employees if they have to take an hour and a half bus ride to come to work every day, or are spending 20% of their daily wages filling up their cars to drive 30 minutes each way just to get to work... and Lord help you if you get off work at night when bus schedules are limited.

In 2017, after returning from the annual Jax Chamber trip to Toronto, everyone came away moved by Toronto officials emphasizing how much they wished they could have went back 5-10 years and did a much better job with providing affordable housing in their downtown. It was the catalyst for DIA doing so many set asides for affordable housing over the last few years.

“We can no longer not engage in the conversation about affordable and workforce housing, being on the sidelines. ‘That’s their job.’ No, that is our job if we want to survive as economic development specialists.” -Aundra Wallace

"Toronto’s city leaders and developers lamented moving so fast on downtown development that they had to go back to add workforce housing because people were priced out of downtown. We took note and Jacksonville has continued on its path of building a mix of residential options. City and state leaders helped secure $8 million this legislative session for more affordable units Downtown."  -Daniel Davis

I love it when people bemoan these Chamber trips for 'not applying lessons learned'... but only if those lessons don't fit into their pre-conceived notions.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 03:41:26 PM by fieldafm »

thelakelander

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2020, 01:26:52 PM »
^I'd be surprised if the Cathedral residents are more than 1,000. They at least have a Harvey's, Family Dollar, McDonald's and 7-Eleven within walking distance. The Northbank's number of residents hasn't really changed much since Metropolitan Lofts came online in the early 2000s. I actually can't think of one residential project in the Northbank that has been completed within the last decade. All of downtown's residential recent growth (2000s since the real estate crash) has been in either Brooklyn, LaVilla or the Southbank.

Cathedral District residential count is much lower than 1k.

The only new residential units that have come online in the Northbank since 2006, have been from the Barnett Bank building rehab (107 market rate units) and the former Lerner Building rehab (58 college student communal suites configured in 3 and 4 bedroom layouts).

Can't believe I forget about those, since they both happened within the last year or so. It's kind of crazy when you think about it. The economy has been booming for a decade and during that time, the Northbank added less than 200 new residential units?!
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2020, 10:24:15 PM »
Lake, sorry to be a party pooper, but, unless I am missing something, when I multiply density by square miles, I should get population.

Might want to re-check Ft. Lauderdale:

1.6 sq. mi. x 8,250 density yields a population of 13,200 vs. 5,936 shown.  In reverse, 5,926/1.6 sq. mi. yields 3,703 density vs. 8,250 shown.

Quote
Downtown Fort Lauderdale

    Size: 1.6 square miles
    Population: 5,936
    Population density: 8,250 people per square mile
    Source
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 03:21:09 PM by jaxlongtimer »

thelakelander

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2020, 08:28:26 AM »
Feel free being a party pooper! If there's a mistake in the writer's numbers, we'll get them corrected. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Tacachale

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2020, 09:03:25 AM »
My error, thanks for the catch. I’ve updated the article.
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Kerry

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2020, 09:40:45 AM »
One thing not mentioned here is the number of hotel rooms available in these other cities compared to Jax.  In cities with lots of downtown hotel rooms it can add thousands of people everyday to the local population.  While Jax does have a small number of downtown hotels, they are spread out and very suburban in design for the most part.
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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2020, 09:47:38 AM »
Quote
Advocates have long used a population of 10,000 as the benchmark Downtown Jacksonville must reach to achieve vibrancy.

Anybody have current DT population figures?

I think I saw, or heard it was a little over 4.8K.
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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2020, 09:56:10 AM »
OK, I think I get it. The bottom line is, we need more people downtown yes, but that's not the common denominator. We need more density in concentrated areas of town, mainly in the urban core and surrounding areas on the northbank, and, accumulating that density would require it being concentrated throughout all of our huge downtown areas, not just the traditional core. I saw the comparison to other cities, and some of their downtowns barely have 2 square miles or more, but with insane population amounts (not really insane but extremely dense). Our leaders in city government, who really need to start earning their pay, need to figure our more innovative ways of not only getting more people to live downtown, but to concentrate those people in areas that would support and encourage more dining, shopping centers, malls, movie theaters, entertainment, bars, etc. Excellent thread/postings by the way.
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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2020, 10:02:48 AM »
As the article mentions, Greenville really did this right. Their downtown feels like the downtown of a much bigger city.

Jax isn't going to have much luck unless and until they are able to turn downtown into more of a destination. My friends who live "in" Greenville actually live outside the city but drive into DT Greenville on Friday nights and weekends.

As this site has said many times, the idea of some giant mega-development being a catalyst just isn't it. It's expensive (given the incentives the city offers); the big ideas almost never pan out; and you never want all your eggs in one basket.

Yeah, it matters what the residents earn. But it matters more that there are things downtown drawing people there, and the kind of folks with the time and desire to be out having a good time, walking or Skyway-ing from place to place. Doesn't seem difficult but Jax doesn't seem to get it.
I agree wholeheartedly. And since we are building all of these residential developments downtown (doesn't matter where), city leaders really need to pay attention and start luring in gas stations, bars, supermarkets, entertainment, shopping, etc., to support these people. I hope someone is monitoring the population and demographics in that regard very closely so that we can keep these people downtown and lure even more. I was in Jax a couple of months ago, and downtown seems a bit better than when I was a staunch citizen of Jax, but its still 9 to 5, and then nothing; and I would imagine since the Landing is now gone, it's a little worse.
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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2020, 10:13:52 AM »
BTW, I am sure a lot of businesses, both large and small, are keeping tabs on downtown population increase and growth; city leaders though should do the same to entice and lure all type business into downtown to support a population increase.
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Kerry

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #26 on: January 25, 2020, 12:07:58 PM »
BTW, I am sure a lot of businesses, both large and small, are keeping tabs on downtown population increase and growth; city leaders though should do the same to entice and lure all type business into downtown to support a population increase.

It isn't hard to do but Jax leadership seems to be stuck in 1990.  Instead of getting the little things right that are in 100% control of the City, they opt for the giant magic projects that are going to transform the City in one fell swoop.  It doesn't work that way and it NEVER worked that way.  If anyone comes to the city with an urban mixed-use project north of $100 million they should be laughed at, told No, and shown the door.  Jax is nowhere near ready for that type of project and anyone proposing it is a fraud.  There isn't a sane person on the planet with $100 million that would invest it in downtown Jax right now - and that includes Brightline/Virgin Trains.
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thelakelander

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2020, 09:51:51 PM »
Brightline/Virgin Trains doesn't have a proposal on the table to spend $100 million in Jax and won't have any type of proposal prior to finishing the Orlando segment and seeing how successful it is. Right now that's 2022 at the earliest.

The only two talking about dropping +100 million are Lot J and The District.  I wouldn't hold my breath on it materializing but Lenny and the Jags claim they're ready to spend $700 million (mostly your money) at Lot J. That's seven times your number.
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Kerry

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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2020, 09:59:08 PM »
Yep - and Khan is a fraud.
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Re: Will 10K residents really revitalize Downtown Jax?
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2020, 10:05:26 AM »
Yep - and Khan is a fraud.
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