Author Topic: Exploring Nocatee  (Read 26595 times)

Tacachale

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Re: Exploring Nocatee
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2020, 01:48:42 PM »
Growing city plus crime around inner city (or old suburbs like Arlington in JAX) equals an octopus of suburban sprawl. The only thing that can stop it is gentrification of depressed areas (which many think is controversial), significant borders like San Diego's Sonoran Desert to east, Pacific Ocean to west and Mexico to south.

Maybe some extreme measures are taken with politics with not creating sprawl (like maybe Portland OR) but overwhelmingly what I said is what's going on in most American cities.

Sprawl happens - but Jacksonville's population density is low AF. In massive, dense cities, there is sprawl simply because there is no room for people in the city centre. That's not the case in Jax.

Yes, it's an opportunity, at least for the pre-consolidated city of Jax, which is about 50% less dense in population as it was in 1950. If we can find ways to revamp public policy to not subsidize unsustainable development patterns and invest quality of life initiatives instead of just talking about and studying them, we have the space to accommodate a lot more people and grow our tax base from within.

Just spitballing here:

1. Adopt form-based code and other policies to build a desirable environment.
2. Incentivize infill and sustainable new development.
3. Buy up more land for preserves and to protect the local environment from the negative effects of sprawl and fragmentation.
4. Toll booths on every road coming into the county from the burbs.
5. Celebrate diversity in Jacksonville while giving the surrounding counties disparaging names they won't understand like "Karentown", "Herbville," and "Wypipo County" in all official communications.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

thelakelander

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Re: Exploring Nocatee
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2020, 01:58:56 PM »
How do you encourage "in-flight" while avoiding gentrification?

A 50% drop in density and population means there's room for at least another 100k people in downtown and the neighborhoods surrounding it without displacing anyone who lives there today......and this is only talking about 30 of Jax's nearly 800 square miles. We could take a serious look at places we've blown to smithereens and target their rebuilding at higher than original densities without much blow back from existing residents. Then there are programs and policies out there that can protect and provide an opportunity for economic enhancement for existing residents. There's also a ton of vacant lots scattered about where infill could be targeted too. Same goes for old industrial sites and strip malls in our older suburban areas. In other words, because we're so low density, we do have some options that limit displacement that many major cities don't.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 02:00:49 PM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Exploring Nocatee
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2020, 02:55:28 PM »
Ok, now I am confused. So it is Britannica that says crime has nothing to do with sprawl and nothing to do with what a development takes in the “look,shape, and density of what we see”?

I'm not sure you clicked on the link but....yes, it explains what sprawl is, in terms of development form. Even San Marco is a form of outward growth and in its form and density would be a suburb in most first tier cities in this country. Yet, I'd doubt even you would refer to it as sprawl. It's a streetcar suburb. So here is what the link actually says:

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Urban sprawl, also called sprawl or suburban sprawl, the rapid expansion of the geographic extent of cities and towns, often characterized by low-density residential housing, single-use zoning, and increased reliance on the private automobile for transportation.

Low-density residential housing, single-use zoning and reliance on the private automobile for transportation are the "look, shape and density" or development form, resulting from public policy. Crime doesn't make land single-use zoning. Crime doesn't fund an Outer Beltway or SR 9B. Crime doesn't make a place walkable or pedestrian hostile. Those things are all public policy and infrastructure investment driven.

By the same token, you can have outward growth that is dense, mixed-use and multimodal friendly. That look, shape, density and development form would not necessarily be considered sprawl. A good example is San Marco. It's an early form of suburban growth but with a different look, shape, density level and development form from....say Oakleaf, Bartram Springs or Nocatee.



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I guess I would like Britannica to explain the non crime/safety origin of the shape and feel of a gate, code box, or talking to some clown in a Cop costume every time I visit someone off 210

Try walking into a luxury condo tower in Brickell, Manhattan, the Loop or any gated development with security. There will be a similar experience, no matter where it's located or what the density of that area is.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 02:57:25 PM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Exploring Nocatee
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2020, 04:38:21 PM »
No worries, I'm as laid back as they come. :)
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Exploring Nocatee
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2020, 10:24:11 PM »
Let's have a drink or coffee in person one day. We'll see if your guess based on reading and attempting to interpret people based off forum posts is accurate.  As for football, finishing ahead of Steve and Tufsu1 makes it a successful season.  ;D
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

tufsu1

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Re: Exploring Nocatee
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2020, 01:05:32 PM »
As for football, finishing ahead of Steve and Tufsu1 makes it a successful season.  ;D

interesting definition of success

MusicMan

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Re: Exploring Nocatee
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2020, 01:16:24 PM »
Well for Lake the "Canes" have fallen so far into the abyss he's desperate .......