Author Topic: Jax Post-Jags  (Read 2551 times)

JaxAvondale

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 550
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2019, 02:49:42 PM »


We try to lure in MLS or something of that nature, spending as much on the stadium for that goal as we would have for football.



This is what the Charlotte is doing with the MLS.

Kerry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1803
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2019, 02:55:35 PM »
I seriously doubt the Jags even make a scratch in hotel stays.  They only have 7 home games.  If every room sold out on those days it is only it is less than 2% of a year's worth of availability.

This I can tell you is factually incorrect. But to your point - let's say it made a 5% change in overall occupancy. That's a LOT in terms of new development of hotels.


What is factually incorrect?  The Jags DO have 7 regular season home games.  7 days is 1.9% of 356 days in a year.  I would think the Carnival Cruise Ship packs in far more hotel stays than the Jags do.

However, let's say you are correct and the Jags do generate a significant percentage of hotel business.  What does the CVB do to replace those nights, knowing that they now have the full Bed Tax at their disposal?
Third Place

Kerry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1803
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2019, 02:57:22 PM »
Here are some effects:

Hotel stays and therefore the bed tax plummets. Most planned new hotels are canceled immediately.

Obviously there would be no more talk of stadium improvements, Lot J, the Shipyards, etc.

Nothing is ever built at the Landing site. Jags games were a major source of revenue for the bars and restaurants there, and that would be gone.

We fight like hell to keep the Florida-Georgia game and make the Gator Bowl relevant again. The former works and the latter doesn't.

Naive people hope that the loss of the Jags would lead to reinvestment in the Downtown core. The opposite happens: for a lot of people, the Jags are the only reason they think or care about Downtown, let alone go there.

We try to lure in MLS or something of that nature, spending as much on the stadium for that goal as we would have for football.

Jacksonville loses a big part of its culture and quality of life, and the civic pride that comes from thousands of people from all walks of life cheering for the same team.

Whichever mayor loses the Jags gets publicly tarred and feathered, and ridden out of town on a rail made from the stadium's less comfortable goalpost.

So Jax just rolls over and dies?  And people think I am the negative one.  Go figure.
Third Place

Snaketoz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 555
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2019, 03:04:57 PM »
Now that we have an NFL team, and sadly one with a poor win percentage, it's easy to discount the many positive things they bring to Jacksonville.  If we ever lose them it will be a huge blow in many ways.

Tacachale

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7755
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2019, 03:43:33 PM »
Here are some effects:

Hotel stays and therefore the bed tax plummets. Most planned new hotels are canceled immediately.

Obviously there would be no more talk of stadium improvements, Lot J, the Shipyards, etc.

Nothing is ever built at the Landing site. Jags games were a major source of revenue for the bars and restaurants there, and that would be gone.

We fight like hell to keep the Florida-Georgia game and make the Gator Bowl relevant again. The former works and the latter doesn't.

Naive people hope that the loss of the Jags would lead to reinvestment in the Downtown core. The opposite happens: for a lot of people, the Jags are the only reason they think or care about Downtown, let alone go there.

We try to lure in MLS or something of that nature, spending as much on the stadium for that goal as we would have for football.

Jacksonville loses a big part of its culture and quality of life, and the civic pride that comes from thousands of people from all walks of life cheering for the same team.

Whichever mayor loses the Jags gets publicly tarred and feathered, and ridden out of town on a rail made from the stadium's less comfortable goalpost.

So Jax just rolls over and dies?  And people think I am the negative one.  Go figure.

Reading comprehension is important.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Steve

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3231
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2019, 03:49:42 PM »
What is factually incorrect?  The Jags DO have 7 regular season home games.  7 days is 1.9% of 356 days in a year.  I would think the Carnival Cruise Ship packs in far more hotel stays than the Jags do.
Likely a typo, but these days the Gregorian Calendar has 365 days:).

The statement, "I seriously doubt the Jags even make a scratch in hotel stays." is incorrect. The downtown hotels usually do a decent business during the week; it's the weekend that's a challenge. The Jaguars help fix that. Will all of the downtown hotels be boarded up if the Jags leave? Unlikely. Does it hurt? Absolutely it will. Additionally, I'd say the logistics of going to a game mean it's extremely difficult (not impossible) to make it a one night trip if going to a game. Thus, it becomes a two night stay for most folks.

I'd actually doubt the cruise ship is more than the Jaguars in terms of room nights, based on the hotels in the vicinity of the terminal. Land is relatively cheap on Heckscher Drive so if there was demand there would be a slew of hotels popping up over there. There's certainly some, but not many.

In addition, a normal cruise schedule is boarding in the afternoon, and departure in the early AM, making it very easy to cruise without a hotel stay on either end. Plus (and both Carnival and the COJ stated this), Jacksonville's cruise port is very much a "drive" port, catering to travelers in a 5-6 hour drive distance from here. If you're flying anyway then fly to South Florida which has a much larger selection of cruises.

With that said, let's say the Cruise ship is more. If you're in sales and you lost a big client, do you just say, "no biggie - they weren't my biggest"?

However, let's say you are correct and the Jags do generate a significant percentage of hotel business.  What does the CVB do to replace those nights, knowing that they now have the full Bed Tax at their disposal?

Clearly they won't roll over and play dead. But, these opportunities don't surface overnight. Could they recover long term? Of course. Will it hurt in the short term? Absolutely.

Steve

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3231
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2019, 03:52:24 PM »
Nothing is ever built at the Landing site. Jags games were a major source of revenue for the bars and restaurants there, and that would be gone.

I agree with everything you said except this one. The Landing survived 8 years before the Jaguars (and you could likely argue 8 of it's best years). Obviously I'm not saying the Jaguars hurt the Landing, and due to nonsense in City Hall, nothing may be built there for a while regardless. I just can't connect the two.

Kerry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1803
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2019, 03:56:23 PM »
So long-term, what does Jax do to replace those lost room-nights?
Third Place

Ken_FSU

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 244
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2019, 04:58:27 PM »
The statement, "I seriously doubt the Jags even make a scratch in hotel stays." is incorrect. The downtown hotels usually do a decent business during the week; it's the weekend that's a challenge. The Jaguars help fix that. Will all of the downtown hotels be boarded up if the Jags leave? Unlikely. Does it hurt? Absolutely it will. Additionally, I'd say the logistics of going to a game mean it's extremely difficult (not impossible) to make it a one night trip if going to a game. Thus, it becomes a two night stay for most folks.

This is absolutely correct.

Just like many of the tenants at the Landing depended on a handful of big events each year to stay afloat, downtown hoteliers also depend on big events throughout the year (including 7 Jags home games, Florida-Georgia, big concerts, etc.) to fill rooms over the weekend.

Two-night average stay is right on the money.

Also, the bed tax money isn't going to the Jags specifically. One third ist committed to service of existing stadium debt, one third is committed to maintainence of the larger sports complex (stadium, arena, Baseball grounds, ampitheater), and one third is committed to the CVB.

If the Jags disappeared, bed taxes for other uses wouldn't go up. They'd likely go down for the foreseeable future, unless the Jags paid off the existing debt and we bulldozed the sports complex.

JaxAvondale

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 550
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2019, 05:06:35 PM »
So long-term, what does Jax do to replace those lost room-nights?

A very good convention center would likely need to be built. Also, you would have to hope that there was some state legislation change with gambling here.

Kerry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1803
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2019, 05:50:07 PM »
Convention centers and gambling are the answer?  Sounds familiar.
Third Place

Keith-N-Jax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2518
    • Around the World
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2019, 01:50:37 AM »
I blasted through Kerry's remarks as usual there not worth reading. The Jags are basically the only reason Jacksonville is known or relevant. If you wanna know what's holding Jax back call COJ.It doesnt help that many of its own residents could care less as the city continues demolish buildings with no resources or plan in place. Stop looking for a scapegoat when the real villian is in charge!

Adam White

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3469
    • Facebook
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2019, 03:51:08 AM »
The Jags are basically the only reason Jacksonville is known or relevant.

Not true at all.

In my experience, most people I have met in the UK who knew about Jax knew about it because of either Lynyrd Skynyrd, Limp Bizkit or its proximity to Orlando.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

BridgeTroll

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13279
  • The average person thinks he isnt
    • London Bridge Pub
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2019, 06:59:48 AM »
No one has mentioned the loss of jobs and high paid positions... players, coaches, staff, not to mention the lower paid seasonal jobs.  Additionally the charity work performed by and donations from the Jags is invaluable. There would certainly be a monetary and quality of life decline with a move.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Snaketoz

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 555
Re: Jax Post-Jags
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2019, 07:24:35 AM »
The Jags are basically the only reason Jacksonville is known or relevant.

Not true at all.

In my experience, most people I have met in the UK who knew about Jax knew about it because of either Lynyrd Skynyrd, Limp Bizkit or its proximity to Orlando.
I prefer those examples to, "I've been through Jacksonville, what's that smell?"