Author Topic: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail  (Read 7161 times)

Steve

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2020, 10:19:11 AM »
I'm staring at this closer. While I don't like aspects of it I see why they did it. The garage is where it is because that's the platform for the pool deck and rooftop retail, and the retail is in the base of the garage, not underneath the residential. Personally, I'd make a few changes, then I still don't love it, but it's not awful.

 - Eliminate the driveout onto APR
 - Convert the outdoor/indoor amenithy to more retail, which then opens out to the open space on the order (a restaurant could add tables)
 - Somehow I'd take the leasing area and wrap the street, especially on the Lafayette/Adams Street side. I'm not sure how you do it exactly because then what comes of the existing leasing space? I was trying to see if you can make that more apartments, but it's on the ground floor under the garage so you'll likely hear cars all night long. Maybe move the indoor/outdoor amenity space to one of the back streets?


Downtown Osprey

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #46 on: March 06, 2020, 10:28:07 AM »
The ironic thing is this development is right next door to one of the best examples we have of rehabilitation and reuse (Intuition)  ::) I was in Charleston last week (first time) and was absolutely blown away. I've all but given up that we will ever sniff the work done in Charleston and Savannah. 

jaxjags

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #47 on: March 06, 2020, 02:07:46 PM »
I wish they used more red brick at the corners to better match the arena. I also hope the "alley" concept comes to fruition. This will take city approval and agreement with Manifest, but adds character to the area and can help blend this area to lot J (if it ever gets built).

fieldafm

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #48 on: March 06, 2020, 02:54:18 PM »
I wish they used more red brick at the corners to better match the arena. I also hope the "alley" concept comes to fruition. This will take city approval and agreement with Manifest, but adds character to the area and can help blend this area to lot J (if it ever gets built).

A point of clarification, that street is an abandoned right of way that is now owned by private parties. Part of the Manifest/Intuition property line extends slightly past that section of the sidewalk, and the rest of that area is owned by the current (and will convey to future) owners of the Doro complex.  The City does not own that portion of the road.

Except for maintaining downtown design standards for the streetscape (which will be part of the DDRB review), there is no other city approval or agreement needed with either Manifest nor Intuition.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2020, 02:55:55 PM by fieldafm »

bl8jaxnative

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2020, 08:59:40 AM »
The ironic thing is this development is right next door to one of the best examples we have of rehabilitation and reuse (Intuition)  ::) I was in Charleston last week (first time) and was absolutely blown away. I've all but given up that we will ever sniff the work done in Charleston and Savannah.

No worries, in a hundred years we'll have a building just as historically insignificant as the one they're looking to remove.  Added bonus we'll have a century of actual, valuable use.    Over that hundred years the city and school district stands to collect $20million more in taxes than from the current structure.

MusicMan

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2020, 11:58:43 AM »
Looks like $2.5 million was paid for the block where Doro sits in 2016. No doubt that was discussed on a related thread. That's a lot of money for an acre and a half.....


vicupstate

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #52 on: March 12, 2020, 09:44:12 PM »
Prediction: the Doro buildings will be demolished in the near future. Then the economic downturn will put the new construction on hold.
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CityLife

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #53 on: March 12, 2020, 10:31:27 PM »
Prediction: the Doro buildings will be demolished in the near future. Then the economic downturn will put the new construction on hold.
Valid concern. There should be a way to craft a condition that will protect against this in the development order. I can think of a few possible options off the top of my head and I’m sure Lori Boyer and Brenna Durden (both seasoned land use attorneys) at the DIA could figure it out. If the people advocating against this project are resigned to it getting approved, they should at least push for the City to put some protections in the DO.

Peter Griffin

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2020, 07:40:11 AM »
Prediction: the Doro buildings will be demolished in the near future. Then the economic downturn will put the new construction on hold.

My therapist calls this "catastrophizing" and says it's bad for your mental health  ;D ;)

Tacachale

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2020, 09:01:16 AM »
Prediction: the Doro buildings will be demolished in the near future. Then the economic downturn will put the new construction on hold.

My therapist calls this "catastrophizing" and says it's bad for your mental health  ;D ;)

In Jacksonville we call it “the story of every other empty lot Downtown.”
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Kerry

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #56 on: March 13, 2020, 09:11:55 AM »
Prediction: the Doro buildings will be demolished in the near future. Then the economic downturn will put the new construction on hold.
Valid concern. There should be a way to craft a condition that will protect against this in the development order. I can think of a few possible options off the top of my head and I’m sure Lori Boyer and Brenna Durden (both seasoned land use attorneys) at the DIA could figure it out. If the people advocating against this project are resigned to it getting approved, they should at least push for the City to put some protections in the DO.

There is an easy way to do it - just make demolition inherent in the issue of a building permit.  The developer can get all their financing in place, approval to build, and everything else ready to go before they ever have to remove a brick.  As it is now, all of that has to be done AFTER the demo permit is issued, just in case the demo isn't allowed.  The gap of time between demo and construction approval is a development killer.
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Steve

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2020, 09:15:09 AM »
Prediction: the Doro buildings will be demolished in the near future. Then the economic downturn will put the new construction on hold.

My therapist calls this "catastrophizing" and says it's bad for your mental health  ;D ;)


This absolutely happened during the last downturn. Not a crazy thought whatsoever.

CityLife

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2020, 12:03:01 PM »
Prediction: the Doro buildings will be demolished in the near future. Then the economic downturn will put the new construction on hold.
Valid concern. There should be a way to craft a condition that will protect against this in the development order. I can think of a few possible options off the top of my head and I’m sure Lori Boyer and Brenna Durden (both seasoned land use attorneys) at the DIA could figure it out. If the people advocating against this project are resigned to it getting approved, they should at least push for the City to put some protections in the DO.

There is an easy way to do it - just make demolition inherent in the issue of a building permit.  The developer can get all their financing in place, approval to build, and everything else ready to go before they ever have to remove a brick.  As it is now, all of that has to be done AFTER the demo permit is issued, just in case the demo isn't allowed.  The gap of time between demo and construction approval is a development killer.

That's better than nothing, but still the wrong approach. You can easily have a building permit issued and not even start a project. You also can't make up arbitrary completion requirements as part of building permit issuance. Something like that has to be done during the entitlement process and approval of a development order. 

As someone that has worked as a lobbyist for developers and planning director on behalf of the public, I believe that the DIA should be able to craft a reasonable condition that the developer can live with and still protect the public at the same time.

Kerry

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Re: Doro Fixture Site to be demolished, replaced with Apartments/Retail
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2020, 01:42:57 PM »
Prediction: the Doro buildings will be demolished in the near future. Then the economic downturn will put the new construction on hold.
Valid concern. There should be a way to craft a condition that will protect against this in the development order. I can think of a few possible options off the top of my head and I’m sure Lori Boyer and Brenna Durden (both seasoned land use attorneys) at the DIA could figure it out. If the people advocating against this project are resigned to it getting approved, they should at least push for the City to put some protections in the DO.

There is an easy way to do it - just make demolition inherent in the issue of a building permit.  The developer can get all their financing in place, approval to build, and everything else ready to go before they ever have to remove a brick.  As it is now, all of that has to be done AFTER the demo permit is issued, just in case the demo isn't allowed.  The gap of time between demo and construction approval is a development killer.

That's better than nothing, but still the wrong approach. You can easily have a building permit issued and not even start a project. You also can't make up arbitrary completion requirements as part of building permit issuance. Something like that has to be done during the entitlement process and approval of a development order. 

As someone that has worked as a lobbyist for developers and planning director on behalf of the public, I believe that the DIA should be able to craft a reasonable condition that the developer can live with and still protect the public at the same time.

Yes, a building permit can be issued without construction ever starting, but who would spend money on a demo unless they were actually going to spend money to build something else...unless the building permit application was obtained fraudulently just to do the demo?
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