Author Topic: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville  (Read 2507 times)

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2019, 10:00:33 PM »
Based on prior City projects, whether its parking, pension plans, the courthouse, dealing with the Jags and the stadium, the convention center, offering incentives to "big" projects that don't pan out, the LaVilla or Heckshcer Drive restaurant fiascos, the Shipyards or any other "business-like" deal, the City is almost always in over its head as terrible negotiators/deal makers and, generally, guaranteed to lose the taxpayers' money every time.

I just read an article that the JEA employees charged with negotiating its sale are being replaced by City employees appointed by the mayor.  While they may have "good intentions" to do their best (that's a big benefit of the doubt given they report to the mayor), none appear qualified to negotiate terms of a multi billion dollar utility sale.  I expect any proposal, should one make it through (a questionable outcome at this time), to surely screw the City's interests.

The City should bring in savvy, disinterested, civic-minded and experienced business community negotiators to work on its behalf when deal making.  At a minimum, I would think some of our recently "retired" CEO's or other highly experienced deal makers would be happy to work on behalf of the City they call home.  City employees and elected officials just don't have the chops for it, living in an alternate and/or conflicted world.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 10:03:59 PM by jaxlongtimer »

Kerry

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2019, 05:19:08 PM »
The fact that any company could come in and propose a parking agreement that updates the technology, increases the number of parking spaces, keeps revenue to the City the same (or even increases it), AND generates huge profits just shows how mismanged parking currently is.

OR ....... how much they intend to raise the cost of parking, and the areas that are being charged for it.

With #LyingLenny involved, get ready to drop trou and bend over JAX.

Under-charging for parking is part of the mismanagement.

Not necessarily. It depends what the goal is of the city running parking. For example, if the city’s goal is to break evenin order to help cultivate a more friendly environment, they they will certainly charge below market rate.

This is where I agree with Boyer, but am concerned about the process. Public Parking does need to have a stated mission and vision as it relates to Downtown.

The goal should be to keep 15% of parking available at all times through demand pricing.  The Town Center has so much parking it is only 85% full 1 day a year.  However, the Town Center has started charging for the prime spots.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 05:21:42 PM by Kerry »
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Steve

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2019, 09:33:46 AM »
The fact that any company could come in and propose a parking agreement that updates the technology, increases the number of parking spaces, keeps revenue to the City the same (or even increases it), AND generates huge profits just shows how mismanged parking currently is.

OR ....... how much they intend to raise the cost of parking, and the areas that are being charged for it.

With #LyingLenny involved, get ready to drop trou and bend over JAX.

Under-charging for parking is part of the mismanagement.

Not necessarily. It depends what the goal is of the city running parking. For example, if the city’s goal is to break evenin order to help cultivate a more friendly environment, they they will certainly charge below market rate.

This is where I agree with Boyer, but am concerned about the process. Public Parking does need to have a stated mission and vision as it relates to Downtown.

The goal should be to keep 15% of parking available at all times through demand pricing.  The Town Center has so much parking it is only 85% full 1 day a year.  However, the Town Center has started charging for the prime spots.

But this 85% number....what's the goal here? Throwing out an arbitrary number (even if it does make some sense in concept) doesn't take away from the need to understand the goal here. Is the goal to make parking a profit center? A loss leader? A break-even?

To an earlier point made, we need to really have an action plan on what our vision is and what we want this property to be. Parking and city-owned property can be a tool if you use it right.

Kerry

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2019, 09:43:58 AM »
The objective of 85/15 is to maximize revenue while ensuring that parking is always available.  If maximum revenue is a loss leader, break-even, or a profit center is irrelevant since revenue is maximized.  Once revenue is maximized it can't get more maxed.
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lowlyplanner

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2019, 04:14:56 PM »
The goal of the 85% occupancy rate is to ensure that there is always a spot available on the street for someone willing to pay.  If the pricing is set up correctly, then people will automatically sort themselves into short term, long term, and economy spaces, and you don't need to do a ton of enforcement or other categorizing.

As Donald Shoup, the economic of parking, said, "The ideal parking spot is the one that balances your sloth and your greed."  i.e. your willingness to walk vs. your not wanting to pay.

In my opinion, it would not take a huge rate increase to have it so there was always a spot available near where you wanted to go.  Right now, it's roughly comparable to feed the meter all day vs. park in a garage.  If the rate went up to $1 per hour, it wouldn't even be close.

How would that change people's behavior?  Is it worth an extra buck to park right in front of bellweather and have lunch?  Or to run into Chamblin's?  I suspect it would be to a lot of people.

itsfantastic1

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2019, 04:31:11 PM »
To an earlier point made, we need to really have an action plan on what our vision is and what we want this property to be. Parking and city-owned property can be a tool if you use it right.

It appears the DIA is going to try and answer that exact question since they've tabled the motion of the unsolicited RFP.

Quote
Grey’s plan hasn’t been outright rejected, however: Tabling a vote on it — instead of outright rejecting it — has the benefit of giving the staff “breathing room” to develop its strategy, Boyer said, since it puts a “cone of silence” in place around the entire issue...

Much of that time will be spent figuring out the answers to the questions that were raised in DIA’s own study, known as the Haahs study. Among them: The biggest question might be a philosophical one: Is the DIA’s goal for parking to raise revenue, attract more businesses, make downtown easier to visit or some mixture of motivations?

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2019/11/26/dia-tables-vote-on-former-board-members-plan-as.html


Kerry

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2019, 06:19:40 PM »
The goal of the 85% occupancy rate is to ensure that there is always a spot available on the street for someone willing to pay.  If the pricing is set up correctly, then people will automatically sort themselves into short term, long term, and economy spaces, and you don't need to do a ton of enforcement or other categorizing.

As Donald Shoup, the economic of parking, said, "The ideal parking spot is the one that balances your sloth and your greed."  i.e. your willingness to walk vs. your not wanting to pay.

In my opinion, it would not take a huge rate increase to have it so there was always a spot available near where you wanted to go.  Right now, it's roughly comparable to feed the meter all day vs. park in a garage.  If the rate went up to $1 per hour, it wouldn't even be close.

How would that change people's behavior?  Is it worth an extra buck to park right in front of bellweather and have lunch?  Or to run into Chamblin's?  I suspect it would be to a lot of people.

Careful.  I referred people to Shoup earlier and you would have thought I was throwing puppies into a wood chipper.
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vicupstate

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2019, 07:50:08 AM »
Considering no one wants to go DT in the first place, and you have to pay for parking, including a significant inconvenience cost, that no place else in the city is being charged, the rate that achieves 85% occupancy is probably pretty damn close to zero.

M-F 9-5, why does anyone need to even go DT that doesn't work there?  Chamblins and Sweet Pete's are about the only reason I can come up with. Has anybody noticed more spaces available now that the Landing is closed?   
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Kerry

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2019, 08:28:34 AM »
During the day parking downtown is a challenge.  On street parking is in high demand and I personally have driven around several blocks looking for an open space.  I go downtown to see my attorney, the courthouse, property appraisers office, the main library, events at Times Union/Florida Theater, and occasionally to make deliveries.

I've also been known to park for free at King St station and take the skyway just to avoid the hassel and save $2 in the process since I actually enjoy walking.  My wife is the opposite.  She would pay almost any price not to walk more than a block.

During events at the Times Union and Florida Theater demand pricing could charge for on-street parking near those venues with decreasing rates the further away you park.  However, there will certainly be times when parking is free throughout downtown.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 08:34:09 AM by Kerry »
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thelakelander

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2019, 09:01:44 AM »
I agree with vic in that DT Jax isn't vibrant enough to significantly raise parking rates.....if the true goal is vibrancy. Personally, I've never had a problem parking in a garage or on-street in DT Jax but I'm also one that is totally fine parking a block or two away and walking, which is what happens when people park at the average Walmart or shopping mall. What I have a problem with is being able to find enough choices open to pass choices in surrounding neighborhoods on a consistent basis outside of work or research related trips. Livability seems to be a larger dilemma than parking, IMO. So to me, the parking management topic should revolve more around how it can best assist in the economic enhancement of the area.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 09:03:29 AM by thelakelander »
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Kerry

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2019, 09:49:25 AM »
Is your opposition limited to this specific plan, or 85/15 demand pricing in general?
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Steve

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2019, 10:09:34 AM »
So to me, the parking management topic should revolve more around how it can best assist in the economic enhancement of the area.

This.

Steve

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2019, 10:11:15 AM »
During events at the Times Union and Florida Theater demand pricing could charge for on-street parking near those venues with decreasing rates the further away you park.  However, there will certainly be times when parking is free throughout downtown.

Thinking solely about economics, I agree. In practice, variable priced meters would be completely confusing for people who don't go downtown often, which is a significant percentage of the population. If you want to get more people downtown, a parking policy that would confuse the average person is not ideal.

Tacachale

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2019, 11:07:05 AM »
So to me, the parking management topic should revolve more around how it can best assist in the economic enhancement of the area.

This.

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Kerry

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Re: Parking Privatization: Jacksonville vs. Nashville
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2019, 11:51:49 AM »
During events at the Times Union and Florida Theater demand pricing could charge for on-street parking near those venues with decreasing rates the further away you park.  However, there will certainly be times when parking is free throughout downtown.

Thinking solely about economics, I agree. In practice, variable priced meters would be completely confusing for people who don't go downtown often, which is a significant percentage of the population. If you want to get more people downtown, a parking policy that would confuse the average person is not ideal.

Cities around the world manage to do it.  Download the parking app to your phone and it doesn't only tell you how much it costs, but also tells you were the available spaces are.  I think that would make it less confusing for the average person.  Check out the ParkChicago or ParkBoston apps.

Here is a map of all the open on-street parking spaces in Chicago and the current parking rate.
https://map.chicagometers.com/

Right now there are 11 on-street spaces available in front of the Adler Planetarium at $2/hr.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 11:55:38 AM by Kerry »
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