Author Topic: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down  (Read 11125 times)

Snaketoz

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #105 on: January 01, 2020, 09:33:17 PM »
I think almost everything about Jacksonville has improved in my lifetime.  That is, if you don't count our downtown.  It was much better in the 40s!

bl8jaxnative

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #106 on: January 17, 2020, 10:52:17 AM »

For those that want to catch it before it's all gone, there isn't much left.   Finn McCools space is gone.  They'll have the rest of that building torn down and piled up early next week.    The front ( north ) facade is left.  And a the NE corner building still had a section remaining.  And that's about it.

I-10east

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #107 on: January 25, 2020, 11:31:51 AM »
Horton Plaza in San Diego looks awful (recent vid below). Atleast a movie theater and a Macy's (the supposed king of retail, according to many in Jax) are open though. The positives with Horton Plaza stop there.

All of the clustering and light rail and nice hotels (things that SD has in place already) will not revive Horton Plaza, lets face it. I keep harping about festival marketplace failures (#NotAll) because I think that Jax was on to something by razing the Landing. I still think that they shouldn't have tore down to Landing without a replacement. These festival marketplaces aren't failing in vibrant cities like San Diego and Phoenix for no reason (damn sure not the lack of trying to rejuvenate them).

A lot of the festival marketplace woes are because many were specifically built with high end retail in mind (like the former Banana Republic at the Landing or the former Nordstrom at Horton Plaza). When the utopian luxury phase dries all up, it's usually either mom and pop fill-ins or empty storefronts next. The Jacksonville Landing will not be the last festival marketplace that is torn down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPyCVFQjYrk
« Last Edit: January 25, 2020, 11:38:23 AM by I-10east »

vicupstate

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #108 on: January 25, 2020, 01:42:36 PM »
Wow. I was there in 1998 or 99 and it was plenty busy then. Maybe online is crushing brick and mortar even more in places like SD.

I watched a video that says the building has been bought and a will keep retail on the ground level and put a Tech campus in the upper levels.  So at least the building is being saved. It sold for $175 million btw.

I think the only retail that would work in a revamped Landing was a  Food Hall / Farmers Market concept. But there were other non_retail options that would have worked too, I believe.
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Kerry

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #109 on: January 25, 2020, 02:46:48 PM »
Horton Plaza underscores the importance of street-facing retail.  While in Victoria B.C. last year we noticed the street-facing retail had much more foot traffic than the The Bay Center, which is a downtown mall there.
Third Place

I-10east

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #110 on: January 25, 2020, 02:47:19 PM »
Phoenix's Arizona Center (similar dead festival marketplace like Horton) also has tech campuses on upper floors. Both of those malls are still very very underutilized (that's an understatement). Imagine what can be done with that prime real estate, if they were the go the Jax 'razing' route? The possibilities would be endless.   

thelakelander

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #111 on: January 25, 2020, 10:39:34 PM »
Horton wasn't a festival marketplace. It was a traditional mall with anchor department stores. Other than being in a more urban setting, it would be more comparable to Regency Square or Grande Boulevard Mall (now FSJC Deerwood Campus). Seaport Village (still open) would be more comparable to the Landing.
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I-10east

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #112 on: January 26, 2020, 12:52:29 AM »
^^^Right on. For some reason wiki has Horton as a festival marketplace (and I unfortunately was going along with that).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festival_marketplace Of course wiki is known for it's trustworthiness. :D

bl8jaxnative

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #113 on: January 26, 2020, 12:39:56 PM »
These festival marketplaces aren't failing in vibrant cities like San Diego and Phoenix for no reason


and Baltimore and Norfolk, et al.

------>It wasn't a successful model in it's day. <----------------------

 The places it did work were exceptions, not the norm.

And most all, people change.

You gotta remember the technology we call the indoor shopping mall is very expensive because it's a very inefficient use of space.   You're looking at 40% of the space being public.  So for your typical million square foot mall, they're maintaining 380,000 - 450,000 sq feet of space that's not being directly rented out.  That means they the other 60% of space has to have that much more in rent.  And that means those stores need that much more in sales.   

It can work.  BUt it's not the norm.  Even in their golden age indoor shopping malls were never more than 5-10% of the retail landscape.



 

sandyshoes

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #114 on: January 31, 2020, 07:39:48 PM »
It just struck me - why not build that proposed Bellagio-type Friendship Fountain at the former Landing site, instead of at Friendship Park?  Put a round sidewalk all around it, like at Memorial Park, with a few benches, maybe an arbor....maybe blend a few items in the style of The Cummer gardens - arbors, etc. - and of course enough green space that people could play frisbee if they want.  Lighting, of course - and PARKING.  What a nice place for people to spill over from intermission at the symphony, etc., with a glass of wine.  A nice walk by the big fountain on the river!
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 07:42:20 PM by sandyshoes »

jaxjaguar

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #115 on: February 01, 2020, 07:54:55 AM »
I like the idea. It would also free up a ton of land for MoSH to expand without affecting the oak trees. It would be cool to see the current fountain turned into a splash pad with interactive elements. That location makes a lot more sense for a splash pad than the one that was in the landing, due to its proximity to a children's attraction.

JeffreyS

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #116 on: February 01, 2020, 09:37:43 AM »
I think a waterfront entertainment venue with some shopping, bars and restaurants right in the heart of DT would be the highest and best use of the space.
Lenny Smash

Ken_FSU

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #117 on: February 01, 2020, 10:54:35 AM »
^I actually think there’s a way to do both.

What if we did a small fountain/splash pad near the middle of the property, and then built the restaurants, bars, and shopping around it?

We’d have to get a little creative with the architecture, but I’m thinking something a bit like a horseshoe might work.

Would probably even leave enough space in front of the river to add a stage for live music.

I know our downtown’s still a bit behind in terms of population and parking, but even with what we have today, there’s still likely a market for, I don’t know, maybe 30 restaurants, local retailers, banks, and artists to stay afloat on that property.

VyStar is building a new garage, Hyatt Place is adding a hotel across the street, new residents are moving into the downtown core, feels like the type of opportunity that many cities can only dream of.

Hope we can make the horseshoe idea work. We just need to find a proven local developer with a passion for the city and a strong track record of success, lock him or her in long-term, and set them up for the same kind of success we’re setting the Jags up for by properly maintaining the public infrastructure at the site and being a good partner on parking and security.

With all of the other downtown development investments that we’re making, particularly $270 million at the sports complex between Lot J and the Hart Bridge ramps, I know it’ll take a sizable public commitment to bring such a dream to fruition (Alvin Brown estimates as much as $12 million!), but strategically, I can’t think of a more important investment to help bring true vibrancy back to the urban core.

thelakelander

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #118 on: February 01, 2020, 12:14:29 PM »
^Thanks for the market study! What's our bill this time around?!
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Charles Hunter

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Re: Last chance to see: the Landing is quietly coming down
« Reply #119 on: February 01, 2020, 12:16:13 PM »
Ken, I think you are onto something!
Anybody know how to get the mayor's attention for this?