Author Topic: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020  (Read 87401 times)

Charles Hunter

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #810 on: January 12, 2021, 10:43:15 PM »
Angry Curry presser in 3 .... 2 .... 1 ....

marcuscnelson

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #811 on: January 12, 2021, 11:01:49 PM »
Prologue:

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This sends a clear and negative e message to economic development in our downtown and city.  Again, it’s unfortunate but LOT J will not happen.  I look forward to continue working on all  the needs of our city for all of our citizens.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #812 on: January 12, 2021, 11:17:57 PM »
If this thing passes, the next best thing is it just squeaks by with the bare number of 13 votes to send a message to the Jags and the Mayor not to take the taxpayers for granted.  It would take 6 to come to their senses and do the right thing by the citizens of Jacksonville. Get 7 "no's" and its a real victory for the taxpayers.  A "no" vote doesn't necessarily prevent the project, it can just send them back to the negotiating table for a fairer deal. 

Those voting "yes" will be a great example of politicos doing the bidding of their donors, not their constituents.  Hope people are reminded of this at the next election.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2021/01/11/votes-falling-place-council-approval-lot-j-deal-khan/6600211002/

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Lot J deal on verge of winning Jacksonville City Council approval

The Lot J development deal with Jaguars owner Shad Khan is poised to win City Council approval Tuesday with a super-majority of council members in favor of legislation committing up to $233 million in city money for a cluster of buildings anchored by a year-round Live! entertainment district.

The deal, which ranks as one of the most expensive for taxpayers in city history, needs at least 13 of 19 council members to approve it, a margin that is within reach based on a 15-4 vote Thursday night in favor of advancing the legislation....

Ecstatic!  Wow and speechless!  Failed by one vote (Priestly Jackson should have been #8)!  Congratulations to the super 7 (Al Ferraro, Danny Becton, Matt Carlucci, Randy DeFoor, Garrett Dennis, Tommy Hazouri, and Joyce Morgan). who appropriately stood up for the citizens of Jacksonville and prevented Lot J from going forward.  Khan should be secretly joyful that the Council gave him a "graceful" way out of a poor business deal and a public relations disaster as I genuinely think Lot J was doomed to fail as presented.  For once, City-wide public pressure on the Council prevailed.

Still saddened to know that the other 12* (cowards) didn't cave too and I hope voters remember their names at election time.  Of course, Curry gets the blame for all of this just like JEA and the pension fiasco.  Not many times when Curry, Khan and Harden turn up as losers all at once but the line in the sand hopefully sends a strong message that we want a new day in Jacksonville!

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* The following councilmembers voted for the Lot J proposal:

    Aaron Bowman
    Michael Boylan
    Kevin Carrico
    LeAnna Cumber
    Rory Diamond
    Terrance Freeman
    Reggie Gaffney
    Sam Newby
    Ju'Coby Pittman
    Brenda Priestly Jackson
    Ron Salem
    Randy White

« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 12:11:11 AM by jaxlongtimer »

marcuscnelson

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #813 on: January 13, 2021, 12:14:55 AM »
Ecstatic!  Wow and speechless!  Failed by one vote (Priestly Jackson should have been #8)!

She was rather hostile when I pointed out how disappointing it was to see her support this.

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Not many times when Curry, Khan and Harden turn up as losers all at once but the line in the sand hopefully sends a strong message that we want a new day in Jacksonville!

There's a really great opportunity here to turn people's attention to the cost-effective solutions for many of downtown's problems. Fixing the convention center issue at the Ford on Bay site, returning passenger rail to Union Terminal by the time things are normal again, getting the Trio off the ground, two-waying streets, working with JTA to focus future land use around Skyway stations. So many things that don't actually cost all that much money (especially compared to their alternatives) but would go a long way into building a sustainable and thriving downtown in the long run.

This thread might now be obsolete, but honestly I find myself pretty optimistic that there's a chance to at least put Jacksonville on a better track, if not the right one.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

WarDamJagFan

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #814 on: January 13, 2021, 07:59:36 AM »
This is not a new day in Jacksonville. This is more of the same. A visionless city council is completely incapable of doing anything 99% of the people on this forum propose. I'm actually quite disappointed in the way this ended. We've gone 2 decades of unprecedented economic growth throughout the US and Jacksonville has literally nothing to show for it. Going in a different direction with Khan/Kordish had risks for sure but now we're still here with the same-ol-same-ol.

Lamping said they want to shift focus to the shipyards now. I say good luck. They'll be stuck negotiating that for another 4-5 years before the city council probably pulls the plug out last minute again with no ideas of their own to counter.

thelakelander

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #815 on: January 13, 2021, 08:19:29 AM »
Prologue:

Quote
This sends a clear and negative e message to economic development in our downtown and city.  Again, it’s unfortunate but LOT J will not happen.  I look forward to continue working on all  the needs of our city for all of our citizens.

Interesting. I thought the Landing being turned into a $25 million lawn would have sent the clear and negative message.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #816 on: January 13, 2021, 08:26:25 AM »
This is not a new day in Jacksonville. This is more of the same. A visionless city council is completely incapable of doing anything 99% of the people on this forum propose. I'm actually quite disappointed in the way this ended. We've gone 2 decades of unprecedented economic growth throughout the US and Jacksonville has literally nothing to show for it. Going in a different direction with Khan/Kordish had risks for sure but now we're still here with the same-ol-same-ol.

Lamping said they want to shift focus to the shipyards now. I say good luck. They'll be stuck negotiating that for another 4-5 years before the city council probably pulls the plug out last minute again with no ideas of their own to counter.

They should abandon all future efforts to negotiate with the mayor's office. In the meantime, focus should be given to seriously investing in the actual downtown now. It won't take 1/2 the amount of public money that was eyed for Lot J, to make significant and quick change in the Northbank.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

landfall

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #817 on: January 13, 2021, 08:58:29 AM »
Unfortunately I feel this is the beginning of the end of the Jags here and by default I can't see the likes of Florida Georgia sticking around.

Lamping might put up a public image about changing tactics but you can't not think that privately they aren't spitting and not actively considering their options now. As said I can't see them going through another 4-5 years of negotiations to potentially end up with nothing again.

Hey though if the people of Jacksonville don't want a professional sports team then thats their right to say so.






CityLife

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #818 on: January 13, 2021, 09:11:50 AM »
If Curry was a selfless, egoless public servant, he would come out and say that he negotiated what he thought was a good deal for the City, but many in the public clearly had concerns with the deal and those concerns were reinforced by the vote last night. Then say that he hopes the Jaguars do not give up on Downtown and are able to re-negotiate a different deal for Lot J or the Shipyards with the DIA and/or City Council.

Sadly for the City, it's residents, and perhaps more importantly, the Jaguars; the mayor is a pariah (heck even 4 republicans voted down Lot J). The guy absolutely botched the JEA deal with sheer greed, which I still think could have been a great for Jax if handled properly. Then he follows that up by circumventing the DIA (which was not the correct procedure legally per the DIA staff report) to negotiate a deal with the Jaguars, when neither he nor anyone on his team has any expertise in real estate development. So here Jacksonville is. No windfall from JEA sale to fund major infrastructure/capital improvements, alleviate pension debt, and fund major economic development projects or corporate relocations. No Lot J. No Landing. No Hart Bridge ramps. A pissed off public. A pissed off Jaguars. A divided City Council. No corporate relocations despite it being the best time ever in Florida history to recruit. A struggling Downtown, while every other major downtown in the state is booming.

I don't even think Pawnee would wish these type of problems on Eagleton.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 09:40:54 AM by CityLife »

WarDamJagFan

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #819 on: January 13, 2021, 09:13:07 AM »
This is not a new day in Jacksonville. This is more of the same. A visionless city council is completely incapable of doing anything 99% of the people on this forum propose. I'm actually quite disappointed in the way this ended. We've gone 2 decades of unprecedented economic growth throughout the US and Jacksonville has literally nothing to show for it. Going in a different direction with Khan/Kordish had risks for sure but now we're still here with the same-ol-same-ol.

Lamping said they want to shift focus to the shipyards now. I say good luck. They'll be stuck negotiating that for another 4-5 years before the city council probably pulls the plug out last minute again with no ideas of their own to counter.

They should abandon all future efforts to negotiate with the mayor's office. In the meantime, focus should be given to seriously investing in the actual downtown now. It won't take 1/2 the amount of public money that was eyed for Lot J, to make significant and quick change in the Northbank.

I like the idea for sure, but again, what are the odds anything like that actually takes place? We're now a half-decade out from anything meaningful happening downtown. At best. It's time we just declare the Berkman to be the new official emblem for the COJ. Nothing could be more appropriate. "Here stands Jacksonville. A visible eyesore with promise but instead remains dead and out-of-place".

Downtown Osprey

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #820 on: January 13, 2021, 09:16:11 AM »
Man this whole debacle is PEAK Jacksonville. Now we are left with no Lot J and no Landing. Way to go Jax!!
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 09:42:29 AM by Downtown Osprey »

Peter Griffin

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #821 on: January 13, 2021, 09:36:46 AM »
The original Lot J renderings from mid-2019, when the original $450mm price tag was established, showed a multi-story public garage with a green space on the roof, a high-rise residential tower with a dedicated garage, an office space with its own garage, plus the hotel and Live facilities. The latest site plan shows a surface lot, 2 mid-rise apartment buildings, and retained the hotel and Live. They removed the public garage with green space, significantly scaled back the residential, converted the office into a scaled-down residential, both of which appear similar to the 5 near-identical housing projects currently underway with far fewer incentives, but KEPT THE PRICE THE SAME. And were asking for nearly HALF from the taxpayers, for a project that on a grand scale looks to have been bait-and-switched.

Holding the proverbial gun to the taxpayers head of "move the project forward or the Jags get it" was a mean PR move to get the city to eat a bad deal by threatening us. Here's the kicker, though, even with Lot J, the team was not guaranteed to stay!

As for setting precedents, I think the fact that this failed sends a good message that we won't be bullied into eating crap and saying thank you for the privilege while a developer makes off with millions of taxpayer dollars with almost no risk just because they're associated with a sports team.

thelakelander

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #822 on: January 13, 2021, 09:38:13 AM »
This is not a new day in Jacksonville. This is more of the same. A visionless city council is completely incapable of doing anything 99% of the people on this forum propose. I'm actually quite disappointed in the way this ended. We've gone 2 decades of unprecedented economic growth throughout the US and Jacksonville has literally nothing to show for it. Going in a different direction with Khan/Kordish had risks for sure but now we're still here with the same-ol-same-ol.

Lamping said they want to shift focus to the shipyards now. I say good luck. They'll be stuck negotiating that for another 4-5 years before the city council probably pulls the plug out last minute again with no ideas of their own to counter.

They should abandon all future efforts to negotiate with the mayor's office. In the meantime, focus should be given to seriously investing in the actual downtown now. It won't take 1/2 the amount of public money that was eyed for Lot J, to make significant and quick change in the Northbank.

I like the idea for sure, but again, what are the odds anything like that actually takes place? We're now a half-decade out from anything meaningful happening downtown. At best. It's time we just declare the Berkman to be the new official emblem for the COJ. Nothing could be more appropriate. "Here stands Jacksonville. A visible eyesore with promise but instead remains dead and out-of-place".

If Lot J were approved last night, we'd still be a half decade out from being defrosted frozen chicken wings and overpriced beer in that place. If I had to make a prediction, everything proposed in Lot J will end up in their Shipyards proposal....which will hopefully be better negotiated from the public's perspective.

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We're now a half-decade out from anything meaningful happening downtown.

I personally don't see Lot J as being any more meaningful than the combination of projects already moving forward in the Northbank. In fact, I'd argue that they're more meaningful and many will happen before Lot J would have opened anyway. These projects include the Laura Street Trio, the VyStar garage, Bread & Board and the VyStar breezeway, the JEA headquarters, the Emerald Trail through Hogan Street, and the adaptive reuse of the Independent Life, Ambassador Hotel, First Baptist Convention, Old Federal Reserve, Jones Brothers Furniture, Porter House buildings, etc. With Lot J taken out back and shot, I hope we can focus a bit more on the Northbank projects underway and targeting of upgrades to spaces and streetscapes that glue them together.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #823 on: January 13, 2021, 09:47:56 AM »
Man this who debacle is PEAK Jacksonville. Now we are left with no Lot J and no Landing. Way to go Jax!!

Lol, this was a sick feeling I had in my stomach when Curry and Hughes were stubbornly burying their heads in the sand and pushing forward with evicting tenants of the Landing two years ago. We wrote several editorials and articles on such a potential outcome and how where things were headed is counter to successful revitalization strategies. Unfortunately, time has proven us right once again.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Papa33

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #824 on: January 13, 2021, 10:01:55 AM »
So what does Lenny do now?  What is his priority?  Put it on autopilot and run out his term?  Does he work and concentrate on quality of life/quality of downtown investment?  Does he chase down the next Iguana proposal?  Does he find a way to keep the Jags here (all in number . . . Stadium and development)?  It does not appear Lenny can walk and chew gum.