Author Topic: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020  (Read 68245 times)

Bill Hoff

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2019, 01:08:34 PM »
Was in a meeting and missed it. Did she mention anything worth discussing here?

She stated that the Downtown core is her focus, not Lot J.

She's working on incentives for two restaurant & bar districts in Downtown.

Some two ways streets should be operational (Adams, etc) by 20/21.

Hogan Street cycle track, part of the Emerald Trail project, is projected for 2021.

She had an incredibly ridiculous answer as to why The Landing is being torn down prior to seeking possible redevelopment or issuing an RFP.

She mentioned the owner of the illegal parking lot (where the Greyhound bus station used to be) has shown her plans for a highrise project on the site. Sounded conceptual.

And she mentioned that the privatized parking proposal was unsolicited, but now that it's out there, they'll be reviewing what parking services they'd like to see, then put it out to bid.


RatTownRyan

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2019, 01:21:31 PM »
Two restaurant and bar districts? One being the "Elbow" and the other being what?

Captain Zissou

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2019, 01:54:55 PM »
Two restaurant and bar districts? One being the "Elbow" and the other being what?

Yeah. Shouldn't we get one established before we work on a second?

Steve

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2019, 02:04:53 PM »
She had an incredibly ridiculous answer as to why The Landing is being torn down prior to seeking possible redevelopment or issuing an RFP.

I can't fault her too much for this. She didn't champion this and pissing off Curry isn't ideal. On the other hand, there is no good logical answer for this.

Bill Hoff

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2019, 03:57:29 PM »
She had an incredibly ridiculous answer as to why The Landing is being torn down prior to seeking possible redevelopment or issuing an RFP.

I can't fault her too much for this. She didn't champion this and pissing off Curry isn't ideal. On the other hand, there is no good logical answer for this.

“If you have a vacant piece of land, you are much more likely to get interest and creative input on what can go there, than if you’re constraining someone to use an existing building," Boyer said.

From: https://news.wjct.org/post/jacksonville-dia-head-disappointed-khan-s-curse-comment

vicupstate

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #35 on: November 04, 2019, 04:16:02 PM »
Quote
The DIA is looking at old design proposals to decide whether the city needs to hire a consultant to update the designs before putting out requests for proposals.

So they are going to update designs of a never-built proposed project?  I can see including prior proposals as information to bidders, but this seems odd to me.     

Quote
Boyer said she’s working on what she describes as a "major initiative" to create two Downtown restaurant districts.

One would run from City Hall down to the Landing along Laura and Hogan streets.

The other one is aimed at the Downtown area known as The Elbow.

Hemming Plaza will be the north anchor of the new district, but the vacant landing lot will be the southern anchor. 
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MusicMan

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #36 on: November 04, 2019, 04:21:50 PM »
I think Melissa Ross read Bill Hoff's e mail question on air, correct?


"Yeah. Shouldn't we get one established before we work on a second?"  Agree 100%.

Be nice to get a tenant back into Burro Bar for God's sake.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 04:25:15 PM by MusicMan »

thelakelander

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2019, 04:25:07 PM »
She had an incredibly ridiculous answer as to why The Landing is being torn down prior to seeking possible redevelopment or issuing an RFP.

I can't fault her too much for this. She didn't champion this and pissing off Curry isn't ideal. On the other hand, there is no good logical answer for this.

“If you have a vacant piece of land, you are much more likely to get interest and creative input on what can go there, than if you’re constraining someone to use an existing building," Boyer said.

From: https://news.wjct.org/post/jacksonville-dia-head-disappointed-khan-s-curse-comment

I just listened too it. Bad answer when talking about a downtown area with historic and unique building fabric. I'd argue someone only interested in greenfield development is likely to be less creative than one who is willing and can work within unique conditions.  As such, your greenfield replacement is likely to be worse than what was torn down originally. The urban environment isn't for every one and we have to be accepting of that. So a bit of creativity towards adaptive reuse will be in order with any urban setting.

The Landing answer was a debatable one as well. The Sleiman plan was a private plan created by the building owner who knew exactly want he wanted to do with the property and the uses he proposed (hotel, apartments, etc.) didn't necessarily work with the existing structure. Since it was privately owned, it would be silly to expect someone else to come to the city and propose an adaptive reuse project of a privately owned structure. Once the city provided Sleiman with an early Christmas gift to acquire the buildings, it never truly considered the possibility of adaptive reuse a chance. While the existing structure isn't suitable for the SJTC-style stick built apartments Sleiman wanted to do, that doesn't mean it would not have been perfect for other uses such as a market, food hall, visitors center, museum, or some combination of all of them. Also, what's up with the we need unsolicited proposals and without them, that means no one is interested? That's a path that should be avoided if the goal is cohesive redevelopment.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2019, 04:29:31 PM by thelakelander »
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Tacachale

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2019, 04:32:23 PM »
She had an incredibly ridiculous answer as to why The Landing is being torn down prior to seeking possible redevelopment or issuing an RFP.

I can't fault her too much for this. She didn't champion this and pissing off Curry isn't ideal. On the other hand, there is no good logical answer for this.

“If you have a vacant piece of land, you are much more likely to get interest and creative input on what can go there, than if you’re constraining someone to use an existing building," Boyer said.

From: https://news.wjct.org/post/jacksonville-dia-head-disappointed-khan-s-curse-comment

I just listened too it. Bad answer when talking about a downtown area with historic and unique building fabric. I'd argue someone only interested in greenfield development is likely to be less creative than one who is willing and can work within unique conditions.  As such, your greenfield replacement is likely to be worse than what was torn down originally. The urban environment isn't for every one and we have to be accepting of that. So a bit of creativity towards adaptive reuse will be in order with any urban setting.

The Landing answer was a debatable one as well. The Sleiman plan was a private plan created by the building owner who knew exactly want he wanted to do with the property and the uses he proposed (hotel, apartments, etc.) didn't necessarily work with the existing structure. Since it was privately owned, it would be silly to expect someone else to come to the city and propose an adaptive reuse project of a privately owned structure. Once the city provided Sleiman with an early Christmas gift to acquire the buildings, it never truly considered the possibility of adaptive reuse a chance. While the existing structure isn't suitable for the SJTC-style stick built apartments Sleiman wanted to do, that doesn't mean it would not have been perfect for other uses such as a market, food hall, visitors center, museum, or some combination of all of them. Also, what's up with the we need unsolicited proposals and without them, that means no one is interested? That's a path that should be avoided if the goal is cohesive redevelopment.

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Ken_FSU

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #39 on: November 04, 2019, 09:17:08 PM »
Quote
But she also expressed concern about Khan’s criticism of Jacksonville’s hotel industry.

Khan had said, “Right now, the decision-makers, the influencers want to come to Jacksonville for business and get the hell out of there. It’s bad for the image, and it’s bad for business,” according WJCT News partner The Florida Times-Union, which was present for the same media interview.

Khan then relayed a story of an unidentified executive, who he said left Jacksonville unsatisfied with his Jacksonville hotel accommodations.

As part of the Lot J development Khan said he “would like to envision a Four Seasons,” the Times-Union quoted the Jaguars owner as saying.

Boyer defended Jacksonville's existing hotel industry.

“I think we have some very nice hotels Downtown. So I’m not nearly as critical of what we have available," she said.

Good for Lori Boyer here.

Hadn't read Shad Khan's full comments before, but man, the optics here are terrible.

The Jacksonville Jaguars, Daily's Place, the Jags practice facility, and likely Lot J* were quite literally built off the back of the city's hoteliers and the bed tax.

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

Can you imagine how the owner of the Omni, or the Doubletree, or the Hyatt Regency must feel, collecting bed taxes that will potentially be used to prop up a competing hotel(s) for a billionaire who publicly bashed their facilities.

Good times in Jax.

*https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-could-use-hotel-bed-tax-to-fund-deal-lot-j-deal-finance-committee-chair-says

Kiva

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #40 on: November 04, 2019, 09:38:52 PM »
If we spent half of what Lot J needs on the CBD, that would be a game changer with significant more economic impact. It would actually end the talk about revitalizing downtown by actually truly revitalizing it into a condition where market rate projects really become feasible.

Well, to be fair, it isn't just how much is spent, but how. If you add up all the money (adjusted for inflation) to demolish buildings, build Seafood restaurants that never open, over-widen Riverside Avenue, build the largely useless Skyway, build mini parks for the homeless,  etc., etc., it would total at least as much as 50% of Lot J, maybe 100%.
Demolishing buildings seems like the favorite pastime of our current mayor. Have you seen the buildings going up now in Brooklyn, now that Riverside Avenue is "over-widened". Yes, money on the skyway was wasted, money on other projects was wasted. That is not a good argument. We could, in theory, learn from past mistakes. Not likely with Lenny as mayor. Instead of throwing over $250 million at Shad Khan for Lot J maybe we could fund the Emerald Trail, and projects in the actual downtown area. Oh, but that would make no sense, it would not benefit politicians or billionaires!

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2019, 06:24:47 AM »
She had an incredibly ridiculous answer as to why The Landing is being torn down prior to seeking possible redevelopment or issuing an RFP.

I can't fault her too much for this. She didn't champion this and pissing off Curry isn't ideal. On the other hand, there is no good logical answer for this.

“If you have a vacant piece of land, you are much more likely to get interest and creative input on what can go there, than if you’re constraining someone to use an existing building," Boyer said.

From: https://news.wjct.org/post/jacksonville-dia-head-disappointed-khan-s-curse-comment
Regarding the Landing, I believe they still have it backwards, putting the cart before the horse; they should not tear down the landing until something viable is chosen to fill in that void, and/or, some type of proposal (a successful and prosperous one mind you), might come up relative to reconstructing, overhauling, and renovating the current building instead of tearing it down; either or is fine with me, but to tear the Landing down, and as other properties in downtown Jax (history proves), it sits there for decades, an eyesore, with nothing have been planned, proposed, on the table, or built.
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Bill Hoff

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2019, 08:00:57 AM »
Two restaurant and bar districts? One being the "Elbow" and the other being what?

These would be along Laura & Hogan Streets:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dia-ceo-working-on-incentives-plan-to-bring-restaurants-downtown
« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 10:15:56 AM by Bill Hoff »

CityLife

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2019, 08:49:13 AM »
Cities that don't have a Four Seasons: Charlotte, Nashville, Tampa, Minneapolis, Indianapolis, Portland, Phoenix, Pittsburgh, Columbus, and a few other similar cities to Jax. I don't think Downtown can sustain Four Seasons rates without heavy discounts/incentives from Khan himself to Four Seasons.

So the City and its residents would be subsidizing Khan so that he could subsequently subsidize a Four Seasons, all in order to satisfy the overwhelming demand from the high end out of town executive market. Is Khan trying to build a fake City to try to trick people into coming here, or actually develop something sustainable?

Peter Griffin

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2019, 09:04:01 AM »
Is Khan trying to build a fake City to try to trick people into coming here...?

I think you're on to something here.