Author Topic: The Ford on Bay  (Read 89192 times)

MusicMan

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #285 on: August 19, 2021, 10:21:32 PM »
Gosh, imagine a Starbucks downtown............

acme54321

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #286 on: August 19, 2021, 10:50:38 PM »
I think it's funny that the DIA is super opposed to fast-food or ice cream shops in the retail space. I guarantee you a Waffle House and Whit's Custard would have that block buzzing on a daily basis compared to a high-end restaurant catering to hypothetical boaters
I think it's funny that the DIA is super opposed to fast-food or ice cream shops in the retail space. I guarantee you a Waffle House and Whit's Custard would have that block buzzing on a daily basis compared to a high-end restaurant catering to hypothetical boaters
Exactly. Even if they wanted to continue the nightlife vibe a Dicks Wings or an M Shack for instance would do a roaring trade there I'm sure.

You guys are delusional. 

Whits?  How many kids do you see on the Riverwalk or downtown?  Because that's who Whits is selling to.  If you think the existence of a Whits is going to bring families down to Bay Street to gaze upon the jail, well, that's something. 

Mshack couldn't even make it in Five Points and you think they are going to do a "roaring trade" here?  That's rich LOL.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 10:52:49 PM by acme54321 »

landfall

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #287 on: August 20, 2021, 07:42:21 AM »
I think it's funny that the DIA is super opposed to fast-food or ice cream shops in the retail space. I guarantee you a Waffle House and Whit's Custard would have that block buzzing on a daily basis compared to a high-end restaurant catering to hypothetical boaters
I think it's funny that the DIA is super opposed to fast-food or ice cream shops in the retail space. I guarantee you a Waffle House and Whit's Custard would have that block buzzing on a daily basis compared to a high-end restaurant catering to hypothetical boaters
Exactly. Even if they wanted to continue the nightlife vibe a Dicks Wings or an M Shack for instance would do a roaring trade there I'm sure.

You guys are delusional. 

Whits?  How many kids do you see on the Riverwalk or downtown?  Because that's who Whits is selling to.  If you think the existence of a Whits is going to bring families down to Bay Street to gaze upon the jail, well, that's something. 

Mshack couldn't even make it in Five Points and you think they are going to do a "roaring trade" here?  That's rich LOL.
Yes actually. Perfectly placed between the Urban Core and Sports Complex. Close to the Hyatt and the River. Extends "the elbow" nightlife to both sides of the street. I'm talking about a sports bar and a burger joint not an Apple store.

tufsu1

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #288 on: August 20, 2021, 01:41:36 PM »

You guys are delusional. 

Whits?  How many kids do you see on the Riverwalk or downtown?  Because that's who Whits is selling to.  If you think the existence of a Whits is going to bring families down to Bay Street to gaze upon the jail, well, that's something. 

Two words for you - Sweet Pete's

acme54321

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #289 on: August 20, 2021, 09:47:52 PM »

You guys are delusional. 

Whits?  How many kids do you see on the Riverwalk or downtown?  Because that's who Whits is selling to.  If you think the existence of a Whits is going to bring families down to Bay Street to gaze upon the jail, well, that's something. 

Two words for you - Sweet Pete's

Are you comparing Sweet Pete's to a Whit's?!?

tufsu1

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #290 on: August 20, 2021, 10:34:33 PM »
you said kids aren't seen downtown. Sweet Pete's proves that families will come downtown.

acme54321

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #291 on: August 20, 2021, 10:51:46 PM »
you said kids aren't seen downtown. Sweet Pete's proves that families will come downtown.

That's a good point.  A Whits or Mshack isn't going to do it though.

thelakelander

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #292 on: September 10, 2021, 07:45:27 AM »
I'm not sure that I agree with this direction. If Bay Street is to be a retail corridor (something we still haven't figured out related to urban clustering), then we shouldn't allow for something that will resemble the deadness of Berkman Plaza at street level immediately facing the bars and restaurants on the north side of Bay west of Liberty. I'm also not understanding why the 10,000 square feet of space must have a 5,000 square foot full service restaurant. We seem to be limiting ourselves again.

Quote
Don’t “chill the bidding”

The Retail and Property Disposition Committee agreed with CBRE that a new request for proposals should encourage, but not require, retail uses along Bay Street.

The committee voted to eliminate a requirement from the first The Ford on Bay RFP that 80% of a proposal’s Bay Street frontage be retail.

Instead, the committee agreed with DIA staff and CBRE that 35% of the street front be “activated” with retail, urban open space, office or private uses for the multifamily residents.

Quote
An outline of proposed RFP criteria shows a minimum 10,000 square feet of retail on the riverfront at 330 E. Bay St.

At least 7,500 square feet must be enclosed ground-floor space and include a 5,000-square-foot full-service restaurant with at least 1,000 additional square feet of outdoor bar/dining space

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dia-committee-supports-rebidding-old-duval-county-courthouse-site

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Zac T

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #293 on: September 10, 2021, 12:53:33 PM »
Maybe it's just me but from a street level standpoint, I would much prefer instead of requiring retail on the river and "encouraging" retail on Bay Street, they instead require retail and commercial uses along Bay Street and "encourage" retail use on the river. It would make more sense considering there's already almost a full block of nightlife uses there and I'd imagine the tenants of the proposed retail space would be more successful considering the existing foot and vehicular traffic along Bay.

Also, LOL at proposing an aquarium or farmers market for the Hyatt parcel. So rather than work with the Hyatt in putting some type of exhibition/convention space that they would gladly sign off on and would compliment the surrounding area, the DIA will potentially incentivize a competitor next door and then throw a farmers market that would probably operate once a week for a couple hours or reserve the site for an aquarium (that won't ever happen)?? Extremely laughable and shortsighted

We desperately need new DIA leadership from top to bottom

landfall

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #294 on: September 10, 2021, 01:35:16 PM »
Maybe it's just me but from a street level standpoint, I would much prefer instead of requiring retail on the river and "encouraging" retail on Bay Street, they instead require retail and commercial uses along Bay Street and "encourage" retail use on the river. It would make more sense considering there's already almost a full block of nightlife uses there and I'd imagine the tenants of the proposed retail space would be more successful considering the existing foot and vehicular traffic along Bay.

Also, LOL at proposing an aquarium or farmers market for the Hyatt parcel. So rather than work with the Hyatt in putting some type of exhibition/convention space that they would gladly sign off on and would compliment the surrounding area, the DIA will potentially incentivize a competitor next door and then throw a farmers market that would probably operate once a week for a couple hours or reserve the site for an aquarium (that won't ever happen)?? Extremely laughable and shortsighted

We desperately need new DIA leadership from top to bottom
Its idealistic nonsense.

Bay Street is ready made to basically be Jacksonville's nightlife strip and all you really need is ground floor retail along that vacant area to create activity on both sides of the street. It's not rocket science.

thelakelander

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #295 on: September 10, 2021, 01:42:50 PM »
Yeah, the last thing you'd want is ground floor office space or apartment tenant amenities facing Bay. Forcing retail on the riverwalk is also a sure fire way to end up with vacant retail space. There's no traffic or visibility there if being built as an isolated space. For retail to work there in the long term, there needs to be more coordination with the Hyatt and the development of the old city hall annex block.

With that said, I missed the part about the Hyatt. I wonder what's the hesitancy on working with them? Instead, we'd rather let that block remain dead and inactive for another decade or more? Mentioning farmers markets and aquariums are fools gold. There's no money for the Landing park, much less another $200 million for an aquarium. Plus, if we ever got around to doing a market (mind you, we have a real one already on Beaver Street), that's a use you'd operate at the Landing park (if it ever happens).
« Last Edit: September 10, 2021, 01:49:43 PM by thelakelander »
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landfall

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #296 on: September 11, 2021, 03:35:16 AM »
The insistence on a farmers market reminds me of the South Park "SoDoSoPa" episode

thelakelander

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #297 on: September 11, 2021, 08:36:23 AM »
It's ridiculous. Even a farmers market would fail to be a viable use of that space.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

BridgeTroll

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #298 on: September 11, 2021, 09:14:56 AM »
Perfect spot for a casino...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

CityLife

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #299 on: September 11, 2021, 09:50:08 AM »
If Jacksonville made Bay Street a truly safe, inviting, and desirable street at the pedestrian level, there wouldn't even be a discussion about reducing the requirement from 80% to 35%. Let's take a look at 3 of the most successful dining and entertainment streets in Florida. There are more people on these streets any given night than there are in all of Downtown Jax.

Clematis Street in West Palm Beach. Though it was already a successful dining and entertainment street, WPB recently completed a major streetscape project. Sidewalks were widened, traffic lanes narrowed, curbs were removed, and more shade trees added. Pedestrians completely own the street and during events it gets completely closed down. That's the beauty of the grid, you can close a street and still have traffic flow just fine.








Atlantic Avenue Delray Beach. Nearby towns Lake Worth and Boca were more vibrant before major streetscape improvements were made earlier this century. Transitions from a 4 lane road to 2 lanes at the start of the dining district. Like Clematis, pedestrians own the street and it's shut down for events.



Los Olas Fort Lauderdale. It is 5 lanes through the core of Downtown FTL. Then becomes four lanes with a median, narrower lanes, and decorative mid-block pedestrian crossings, then becomes 2 lanes with bike lanes.





Meanwhile, Jacksonville is planning to make Bay Street an "innovation corridor, completely focused on vehicular transit, not the pedestrian experience. Who would want to open retail, dining, or entertainment uses along this corridor?



« Last Edit: September 11, 2021, 09:52:52 AM by CityLife »