The Ford on Bay

[fieldafm]

If so, that will spark a bidding war.  Unless the rules cap the bids, which they often do.  If that happens, what an enormous waste of time foisted upon the city by Hyatt.

The City would have actually wasted everyone's time in that scenario. The RFP that Spandrel 'won', specifically excluded convention space as a use. The Hyatt is in the business of booking hotel rooms and conventions, and their right of first refusal centers around the expansion of those services. We've known this since COJ entered into an economic development agreement with a developer two decades and four mayors ago, to build what is now the Hyatt. This isn't rocket science.

If that were true, that Hyatt's Right of First Refusal applies only to Hotel/convention space, then there would be no impediment to Spandrel proceeding with both phases of their project. Obviously the RoFR is broader than that, or there is some sort of hitch.   

I didn't say that their right of first refusal only applies to hotel space.

Why would the Hyatt want to build low density apartments on that site?  How does that complement their business?  That's the hitch.  The proposed use doesn't benefit them one bit, and they have legal rights in regards to that site that they want to protect.  I don't blame them.

[Charles Hunter]

Added convention space would benefit their business of booking hotel rooms and conventions. Having cheap stick frame apartments on the site would hurt their hotel and convention business. Who knows, with a Public-Private Partnership, it may need less of a subsidy than the Spandrel apartments.

[thelakelander]

Now nothing (except maybe COVID) is stopping an agreement with Spandrel on the courthouse site. Nevertheless, for whatever reason, that's still not done either. Other than that, I can't blame Hyatt's owner either. It's literally a death sentence for that property if expanded convention facilities are 100% eliminated from its future.

[simms3]

The city is so stupid!  Reading people's comments and both the Daily Record and JBJ articles makes me a bit upset.  In the JBJ articles DIA board member David Ward is quoted as being very upset that Jacobs/Hyatt would continue to submit unsolicited bids and to make such bids known via a small media blitz.  Joe Ayers of CBRE who helped run the latest RFP concludes that in his expertise as a multifamily broker, multifamily is still the current highest and best use.  Well, quite frankly, for a host of reasons one could say that for just about any site in any city.  At some point the city needs to quit pretending it's desperate for this bullshit 10,000 unit mark downtown in order to start being "self-sufficient" and it needs to designate spaces for certain civic uses.

Ok, so Jacksonville is reportedly not ready for such a convention center "now", but as we grow and approach 2 million people with ever increasing tourism coming our way, at some point sooner rather than later we probably will be ready for such a convention center.  Where are we going to put it?  Of course we can only think about one thing at a time here and right now that seems to be hitting the magical 10,000 unit mark, and we are doing all we can to hit it - including expanding the geographic definition of downtown and bulldozing over previous agreements with existing non-residential users in the city (not to mention bulldozing over other historic buildings not likely to become apartments) to do so.

I question the relative genius of some of the board members and some of the DIA staff.  If this is all about appeasing Lenny Curry and Shad Khan, I do hope some back door discussions are being had so that such a valid convention center proposal for this site sticks around for the next administration.

[heights unknown]

The city is so stupid!  Reading people's comments and both the Daily Record and JBJ articles makes me a bit upset.  In the JBJ articles DIA board member David Ward is quoted as being very upset that Jacobs/Hyatt would continue to submit unsolicited bids and to make such bids known via a small media blitz.  Joe Ayers of CBRE who helped run the latest RFP concludes that in his expertise as a multifamily broker, multifamily is still the current highest and best use.  Well, quite frankly, for a host of reasons one could say that for just about any site in any city.  At some point the city needs to quit pretending it's desperate for this bullshit 10,000 unit mark downtown in order to start being "self-sufficient" and it needs to designate spaces for certain civic uses.

Ok, so Jacksonville is reportedly not ready for such a convention center "now", but as we grow and approach 2 million people with ever increasing tourism coming our way, at some point sooner rather than later we probably will be ready for such a convention center.  Where are we going to put it?  Of course we can only think about one thing at a time here and right now that seems to be hitting the magical 10,000 unit mark, and we are doing all we can to hit it - including expanding the geographic definition of downtown and bulldozing over previous agreements with existing non-residential users in the city (not to mention bulldozing over other historic buildings not likely to become apartments) to do so.

I question the relative genius of some of the board members and some of the DIA staff.  If this is all about appeasing Lenny Curry and Shad Khan, I do hope some back door discussions are being had so that such a valid convention center proposal for this site sticks around for the next administration.

Amen and amen.

[Florida Power And Light]

Names I like better than The Ford on Bay:

Lenny's Lawn
The Former Courthouse and City Hall Annex Site
The two blocks south of Bay and West of the Plaza at Berkman and one submerged property which used to be the site of the courthouse parking lot
The Grass Patch
The Bro-town Chill Zone
Downtown Bro-Down
The Place that will undoubtedly house the homeless for the next two years
A Great Place to Play Ultimate Frisbee that Only Cost $35M to Make
The Clusterf*ck
220 East Bay Street
The Suck
sadjknbsadxjkb

“Potential Square “

Anything “ Potential”

Potential Loop
Potential Strip
Potential Commons
Potential Endless Potential  Loop

[landfall]

Was just thinking because of a post on another thread I made how stagnant this project has actually become. Its now over a year since the Spandrel proposal was approved and over six months since the DIA rejected the Hyatt Convention Center rebuff.

Never change, Jacksonville.

[marcuscnelson]

Speaking of this, did Lori Boyer even bring up this project during the whole "everything's fine, guys!" workshop? I saw part of it, and recall someone during public comment saying that they had a proposal to make if DIA did a new RFP but I can't remember if they ever mentioned it outside of that.

[jaxoNOLE]

Back to square one we go. I'm not too disappointed in Spandrel getting the boot, but dropping the retail requirement so drastically on what's supposed to be a vibrant downtown corridor is a bit disappointing. I certainly hope the market can support better than 35% ground-level retail along that block.

With the new notice of disposition excluding the Hyatt RoFR land, it has to make you wonder if there is any hint of a real plan at DIA for that site that they are piecing together out of the public view--or are we just going to let that space sit indefinitely? I'm not seeing a lot of reasons to believe the future of this process will be any better than the mess it's been up to this point.

The Downtown Investment Authority Retail Enhancement and Property Disposition Committee voted unanimously Aug. 13 to terminate negotiations with New York-based Spandrel Development Partners.

DIA CEO Lori Boyer proposes issuing a new notice of disposition in October, making bids due in early November, scheduling presentations from bidders before Dec. 1 and scheduling the board’s selection vote Dec. 16.

[...]

Boyer recommends requiring market-rate residential in the new term sheet, as well as offering only the former courthouse site at 330 E. Bay St. based on discussions she has had with potential bidders.

A workshop will be scheduled to review and settle on new terms for the disposition of the property. Some changes discussed Aug. 13 include:

• Compliance with design standards and the Downtown view corridor requirement. The DIA would support a deviation from the view corridor requirement if the project is set back at least 100 feet from the waterfront instead of the previous 50-foot standard. The area 50 to 100 feet from the river can be used to create a plaza that would support resiliency and activation, Boyer said.

• Reduce the required Bay Street retail space from 80% to 35% and provide a scoring bonus for additional retail.

Ground-floor uses other than retail or restaurant would meet all transparency requirements. Tenant spaces such as gyms and community rooms or work-live units or offices could comprise the remainder of the frontage but bonus points will be awarded for additional retail or restaurants on Bay Street.

• Require a 10,000-square-foot restaurant on the riverfront with at least 7,500 square feet on the ground floor. The DIA wants a full-service restaurant that would provide a dining destination for boaters. “We don’t want fast-food or ice cream shops,” Boyer said.

• Financial incentives from the city will be limited to a multifamily market rate Recapture Enhanced Value Grant equal to a refund of 50% of the additional property taxes generated by the development for a term of 20 years, the same terms for incentives that were in the original notice.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dia-terminates-spandrel-negotiations-for-the-ford-on-bay-site

[MusicMan]

How about a giant sculpture that says:

"ellivnoskcaJ"  in pretty polished metal....

[jaxoNOLE]

Can we get a BOGO if that one and the Landing happen at the same time?

[acme54321]

I don't think it's a big deal that the courthouse site would have limited or no retail as the historic buildings on the other side of Bay Street somehow avoided demolition.  One of the best intact strips of historic structures downtown that are prime for restoration. 

[Zac T]

I think it's funny that the DIA is super opposed to fast-food or ice cream shops in the retail space. I guarantee you a Waffle House and Whit's Custard would have that block buzzing on a daily basis compared to a high-end restaurant catering to hypothetical boaters

[thelakelander]

LOL beggars can't be choosy. A Waffle House open 24/7 would be a benefit in the Northbank. Btw, Hyatt has a full service restaurant right next door. It would be an easy win to better connect it and the other eateries in that hotel with the riverwalk. Right now, the average riverwalk user would not even notice them or know that they can eat in them.

[landfall]

I think it's funny that the DIA is super opposed to fast-food or ice cream shops in the retail space. I guarantee you a Waffle House and Whit's Custard would have that block buzzing on a daily basis compared to a high-end restaurant catering to hypothetical boaters

Exactly. Even if they wanted to continue the nightlife vibe a Dicks Wings or an M Shack for instance would do a roaring trade there I'm sure.