Author Topic: The Ford on Bay  (Read 100863 times)

Charles Hunter

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #255 on: July 15, 2020, 04:44:16 PM »
Is the FORD ON BAY becoming an Edsel?

tufsu1

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #256 on: July 15, 2020, 08:42:49 PM »
^ definitely not a Bronco ;)

Steve

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #257 on: July 16, 2020, 11:56:40 AM »
Looks like DIA rejected the proposal. In fairness to the DIA, there was 0 information on funding and it required COJ to cover any operating losses for the facility.

I know Boyer wants to look at a convention center to the WEST of the Hyatt (basically the current parking garage and parking lot). That in theory COULD be done:

 - The Courthouse/City Hall site is 264k SqFt
 - If you tear out the ramp from the Main Street bridge to Newnan Street, you get about 237k SqFt. If you wanted to elevate it over the Ocean Street Ramp ($$$$) you'd get 260k SqFt. Of course, the parking would have to be somehow replaced/included.

Now, one option is that you let Spandrel do what they want on the Courthouse site. On the City Hall site, bring Spandrel and the Hyatt ownership to the table. Have Hyatt waive their first right to the City Hall site, in exchange for Spandrel accommodating Hyatt Parking into their development there. In exchange, the City works with Hyatt ownership on the convention center site in a PPP.

That actually could work, though I can't see how this is a cheaper option.

thelakelander

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #258 on: July 16, 2020, 11:21:53 PM »
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/dia-board-rejects-unsolicited-convention-center-bid-at-the-ford-on-bay

Sorry, I would not trust CBRE to make a competent decision on Jax's convention center market. Also neither Spandrel's or Jacob's proposals are remotely feasible without the city shelling out big bucks to subsidize. I also totally disagree with the false assumption that Jax isn't ready for a convention center.....because we've had one since 1985! Are we ready for a 843,000 square foot convention center and another convention center hotel? Hell no, not at this site or the Shipyards/Lot J and that will still be the case 10 to 15 years from now. Are we ready for a 120,000 to 150,000 exhibition hall integrated and connected with the Hyatt's existing meeting rooms and ballroom? Yes, and we were the day the Hyatt opened up nearly 20 years ago.
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marcuscnelson

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #259 on: July 16, 2020, 11:55:34 PM »
Now, one option is that you let Spandrel do what they want on the Courthouse site. On the City Hall site, bring Spandrel and the Hyatt ownership to the table. Have Hyatt waive their first right to the City Hall site, in exchange for Spandrel accommodating Hyatt Parking into their development there. In exchange, the City works with Hyatt ownership on the convention center site in a PPP.

That actually could work, though I can't see how this is a cheaper option.

If Hyatt has learned nothing else from the convention center debacle or in general, it's that you can't really trust the city to accomplish things on any reasonable timescale. I feel like there'd have to be some kind of more concrete assurance that they'd actually get what they want, rather than risk losing their bargaining chip.
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marcuscnelson

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #260 on: July 17, 2020, 12:02:14 AM »
What exactly is keeping Hyatt from just exercising their first right of refusal, buying the City Hall site and building the exhibition hall themselves? Is it just the financials? At this point the city's even done them a favor and cleared the site for them.
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itsfantastic1

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #261 on: July 17, 2020, 08:18:29 AM »
"Moody and other DIA board members said their decision July 15 would not preclude the city from considering the Jacobs Engineering Group’s proposal or issuing another request for proposals should negotiations with Spandrel fall through."

 :o

vicupstate

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #262 on: July 17, 2020, 08:57:32 AM »
What exactly is keeping Hyatt from just exercising their first right of refusal, buying the City Hall site and building the exhibition hall themselves? Is it just the financials? At this point the city's even done them a favor and cleared the site for them.

Good question. I think that Hyatt could make an offer but the city would I highly doubt the city would be obligated to accept it. On the other hand, if the city gets an offer from another party, then the Hyatt has the right to match or beat it.
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Charles Hunter

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #263 on: July 17, 2020, 09:55:55 AM »
What exactly is keeping Hyatt from just exercising their first right of refusal, buying the City Hall site and building the exhibition hall themselves? Is it just the financials? At this point the city's even done them a favor and cleared the site for them.

Good question. I think that Hyatt could make an offer but the city would I highly doubt the city would be obligated to accept it. On the other hand, if the city gets an offer from another party, then the Hyatt has the right to match or beat it.

Isn't the Spandrel proposal an "offer" for the City Hall property, that Hyatt could offer to meet or beat?  What happens if the City rejects Hyatt's "first refusal" offer? Does the land stay vacant until another round of offers?

thelakelander

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #264 on: July 17, 2020, 10:46:13 AM »
How much money is Spandrel offering to purchase the property? I could be wrong but it seems like Spandrel wants stuff given to them.
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Charles Hunter

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #265 on: July 17, 2020, 11:18:01 AM »
I think you are right. If Spandrel is "offering" to take the City Hall property, paying nothing, then Hyatt beats the offer by offering a dollar.

downtownbrown

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #266 on: July 17, 2020, 11:20:50 AM »
If so, that will spark a bidding war.  Unless the rules cap the bids, which they often do.  If that happens, what an enormous waste of time foisted upon the city by Hyatt.

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #267 on: July 17, 2020, 12:00:48 PM »
Tsk, tsk, tsk...Jacksonville leadership and politics.
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fieldafm

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #268 on: July 17, 2020, 12:05:20 PM »
If so, that will spark a bidding war.  Unless the rules cap the bids, which they often do.  If that happens, what an enormous waste of time foisted upon the city by Hyatt.

The City would have actually wasted everyone's time in that scenario. The RFP that Spandrel 'won', specifically excluded convention space as a use. The Hyatt is in the business of booking hotel rooms and conventions, and their right of first refusal centers around the expansion of those services. We've known this since COJ entered into an economic development agreement with a developer two decades and four mayors ago, to build what is now the Hyatt. This isn't rocket science.

Frankly, the most recent RFP wasn't good on many levels- 1) it gave no consideration for the Hyatt's preference for that site and 2) several requirements for bidders shrunk the pool of qualified developers

And what you wound with is a low density apartment complex with some very generous incentives (on top of the considerable amount of public funds used to prepare the site for such a ho-hum use).  Downtown needs all the density it can get, so I genuinely hope that this site doesn't sit empty for years and years.... but the last three years haven't exactly gone well for this piece of property, and that falls directly on DIA/COJ.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2020, 12:19:02 PM by fieldafm »

vicupstate

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #269 on: July 17, 2020, 12:16:15 PM »
If so, that will spark a bidding war.  Unless the rules cap the bids, which they often do.  If that happens, what an enormous waste of time foisted upon the city by Hyatt.

The City would have actually wasted everyone's time in that scenario. The RFP that Spandrel 'won', specifically excluded convention space as a use. The Hyatt is in the business of booking hotel rooms and conventions, and their right of first refusal centers around the expansion of those services. We've known this since COJ entered into an economic development agreement with a developer two decades and four mayors ago, to build what is now the Hyatt. This isn't rocket science.

If that were true, that Hyatt's Right of First Refusal applies only to Hotel/convention space, then there would be no impediment to Spandrel proceeding with both phases of their project. Obviously the RoFR is broader than that, or there is some sort of hitch.     
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