Author Topic: The Ford on Bay  (Read 28881 times)

Peter Griffin

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #240 on: February 25, 2020, 08:15:39 AM »
we need more First Coast Synergy (TM)

Charles Hunter

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #241 on: February 25, 2020, 08:28:49 AM »
Basically, we have 1.5 million but they are almost all spread across thousands of square miles with no synergy.  It is just 4 counties of low density urban sprawl.  Howard Kunstler coined the phrase for this - there is just no "there" there.

Actually, Gertrude Stein coined the phrase. But it does apply to NE Florida.
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"There is no there there"
It appears in Gertrude Stein, Everybody's Autobiography (Random House 1937, p 289) and is often applied to the city of her childhood, Oakland, California.

Gertrude Stein - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Gertrude_Stein

Kerry

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #242 on: February 25, 2020, 11:40:17 AM »
Thanks Charles.  I stand corrected on the origin. :)
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bl8jaxnative

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #243 on: March 07, 2020, 08:28:19 AM »
Yes Jax has a population of 1.5 million but to me that number doesn't reflect reality.  My friends in St Johns County do not consider themselves part of metro Jacksonville, even if the government does.  At best, they work in southern Duval County (Gate Parkway/Deerwood/Baymeadows) but that is it.  They don't do anything else in Jax and now with Durbin Creek they have even less reason to cross the County line.


That's not any different from anyplace else.   If you look at other edge counties, the have the same outcomes.

For example, iuf you look at place like York County, SC.  It's suburban Charlotte.  70% of it's residents work in the county.  And what ones that do leave the county for work, 40% don't leave the state.  The few that work in Charlotte work on the fringe.  There's no daily connection with the core city for most of their residents.

You'll find similar situations in St. Croix county, WI, Waukesha County, Wisconsin, or Williamson County, Tennessee.




thelakelander

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #244 on: March 07, 2020, 08:43:18 AM »
You'll find similar situations in South Florida, New York, Detroit, Chicago, LA, Dallas and even Greenville. Yeah, it's no different than any place else.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

MusicMan

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #245 on: July 10, 2020, 09:37:30 AM »
What about all the Duval residents streaming down to Durbin Creek to get their mall fix? LOL
« Last Edit: July 10, 2020, 10:06:19 AM by MusicMan »

thelakelander

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #246 on: July 15, 2020, 07:20:51 AM »
Houston, we have a problem....

Probably would have been good to figure out Hyatt's first right of refusal before coming up with alternative ideas for the property and seeking developers for them. Anyway, just more time in the condition we mentioned DT needed to avoid back before the city hall annex implosion a few years back. Another big empty space in the heart of downtown that's void of people for the foreseeable future.

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The DIA is negotiating a term sheet with Spandrel for the Phase I of The Ford on Bay development that has to work around the Hyatt’s first right of refusal.

Boyer said in a July 13 phone interview that the city has not secured an agreement with Hyatt for the property.

Phase I of the development at 330 E. Bay St. can proceed without the hotel’s approval.

Rensing said Westmont has no intent of giving up its contractual rights to the parcel for Spandrel’s proposal.

He said the Jacobs team met Westmont representatives as recently as last week.

Full article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jacobs-engineering-pushes-for-dollar550-million-convention-center-at-the-ford-on-bay
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 07:25:12 AM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Steve

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #247 on: July 15, 2020, 07:50:57 AM »
Jacobs is nothing if not persistent. Wow.

I mean, I’m not sure where the $550M is coming from, but I mean we have to consider this.

thelakelander

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #248 on: July 15, 2020, 08:28:04 AM »
The solution to me is to work with both for an integrated project because neither are truly feasible alone.

1. There is no market for the 74,000 square feet of retail proposed by Spandrel's stick frame project.
2. There is no market for an 843,000 square foot convention center and new convention center hotel in DT Jax.

Revamp the Hyatt, scrap the new convention center hotel and add an exhibition hall in the range of 100 to 150k square feet. Via air rights and the rest of the property, multifamily housing can be added. Also, retail can be added at strategic ground level locations throughout the two blocks.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Captain Zissou

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #249 on: July 15, 2020, 08:58:25 AM »
Who would want to do business with COJ after seeing this unfold?  Jacobs wins RFP, city scraps RFP, Spandrel wins new RFP, city doesn't have the ability to honor the agreement. 

Papa33

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #250 on: July 15, 2020, 09:28:19 AM »
The solution to me is to work with both for an integrated project because neither are truly feasible alone.

1. There is no market for the 74,000 square feet of retail proposed by Spandrel's stick frame project.
2. There is no market for an 843,000 square foot convention center and new convention center hotel in DT Jax.

Revamp the Hyatt, scrap the new convention center hotel and add an exhibition hall in the range of 100 to 150k square feet. Via air rights and the rest of the property, multifamily housing can be added. Also, retail can be added at strategic ground level locations throughout the two blocks.
This sounds way too reasonable.

downtownbrown

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #251 on: July 15, 2020, 10:38:55 AM »
this is just noise.  Boyer has already showed her hand.

itsfantastic1

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #252 on: July 15, 2020, 10:41:06 AM »
Who would want to do business with COJ after seeing this unfold?  Jacobs wins RFP, city scraps RFP, Spandrel wins new RFP, city doesn't have the ability to honor the agreement.

It's easier here

thelakelander

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #253 on: July 15, 2020, 11:28:00 AM »
this is just noise.  Boyer has already showed her hand.
Everyone knows they want to go with Spandrel and avoid the convention center issue altogether with Khan floating a similar financially irresponsible proposal at the stadium. Nevertheless, how do they get Hyatt (Jacob's partner) to void their legally binding first right of refusal on the property?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Steve

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #254 on: July 15, 2020, 11:42:51 AM »
this is just noise.  Boyer has already showed her hand.
Everyone knows they want to go with Spandrel and avoid the convention center issue altogether with Khan floating a similar financially irresponsible proposal at the stadium. Nevertheless, how do they get Hyatt (Jacob's partner) to void their legally binding first right of refusal on the property?

This is the issue. I actually don't believe Boyer has shown her hand. I believe Boyer has been attempting to be as politically pragmatic as she can without pissing off the Mayor's office.

It wasn't Boyer that pushed the Convention Center by the stadium thing, it was Brian Hughes and the Mayor. I'm guessing neither Hughes nor Curry knew about the first right of refusal that the Hyatt ownership had (many of us on here knew though I didn't know the specifics).

I'm not sure what they do here. I think the best thing would be for Spandrel to get with the Hyatt ownership/Jacobs and make something work here. Perhaps they build a convention center with clear air rights to Spandrel.