Author Topic: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax  (Read 2907 times)

Steve

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #30 on: September 11, 2019, 01:35:12 PM »
For those that think a quick sale and eminent redevelopment is in the cards, what is it about downtown Jax in the last 40 years that gives you this optimism?

From a practical stand point, if you had the money why would you even consider these properties when there is an ample supply of properties with much better locations.  The only frontage on State St (the primary thoroughfare) are 3 parking garages and a giant blank wall, and even if you did put something in you are still located in homeless central.

Finally, I don't think FSCJ would be any more interested in these properties than I am.  They are already sitting on more acres of parking than they are classroom space by a factor of 5, and any student parking here would have to cross both State and Unions streets which would become pedestrian kill zones.

Of course, I could be totally wrong.

Motivated Seller (again, see my point about the person selling his or her house because of being let go at work). Any piece of property can be sold tomorrow downtown....for the right price. Many properties aren’t priced realistically in my opinion.

Now, do I think they’ll price this at Chapter 11 liquidation prices? No, I didn’t say that. But, I think they’ll be priced competitively.

thelakelander

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2019, 02:35:51 PM »
They've already been quietly selling off property. This building was sold in November 2018:




They've also been in negotiations to sell these:





Whether they sell property or not shouldn't even be a question. If they're taking out a $30 million loan to restore the one block they want to keep, they're going to have to pay it back with interest. Relying on tithes when membership is declining isn't going to get it done. Ridding themselves of property they don't need is a much more realistic outcome. The bigger questions should be how is it sold (one piece or piecemeal....likely piecement, IMO), who buys, what will said buyer(s) use their acquired properties for and timeline of when they'll be using them?
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vicupstate

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2019, 03:18:55 PM »
^^
So you mean the Gay Pride colors were not on that building when First Baptist owned it?

I don't doubt they intend to sell all of it eventually and some of it immediately, but I don't see anyone buying all of it, unless it is a fire-sale. This is such a one of a kind offering, it is hard to predict anything with much confidence, but I think some parts will not be snatched up too quick. 
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Peter Griffin

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2019, 03:30:53 PM »
I could see apartment developers or office space developers buying up the midrise buildings, and hopefully the city (shudders at the thought of the city buying more property from private owners in the core) will buy the garages.

Office spaces or apartments may work for the administrative buildings, but those large auditoriums may be a niche space, unless a school (as others have mentioned) could make use of it.



thelakelander

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2019, 03:38:35 PM »
^^
So you mean the Gay Pride colors were not on that building when First Baptist owned it?

I don't doubt they intend to sell all of it eventually and some of it immediately, but I don't see anyone buying all of it, unless it is a fire-sale. This is such a one of a kind offering, it is hard to predict anything with much confidence, but I think some parts will not be snatched up too quick. 

That's definitely a new mural...



Like you, I don't see a single buyer here. I see it being piecemealed off incrementally. However, I don't view piecemealing as a bad thing. Nevertheless, it wouldn't be bad for some Cathedral District style master planning to first take place with this area of downtown.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jaxlongtimer

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2019, 07:50:45 PM »
Looks like Florida Coastal School of Law is still struggling.  As our only law school, it would be nice to see the City work with them to relocate downtown to one of the First Baptist blocks.  Seems like downtown would be a more ideal location for the school with Federal and County courthouses, US and State attorneys' offices, government buildings and agencies, etc. providing experiences, resources and lots of mentoring lawyers.

The school has been working to change from for-profit to non-profit.  Given that and the direction the school is going, I wonder if UNF could absorb them.  Jax needs more graduate programs to take us to the next level and law would be among the easier ones to implement.

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190911/dean-of-struggling-florida-coastal-school-of-law-in-jacksonville-abruptly-resigns

Papa33

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #36 on: September 12, 2019, 11:13:57 AM »
Question for you urbanists out there . . . what are your development suggestions for these blocks/parcels that would allow bleed over Union and State to reduce the psychological and physical barrier that is State and Union?

Steve

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2019, 11:45:17 AM »
Question for you urbanists out there . . . what are your development suggestions for these blocks/parcels that would allow bleed over Union and State to reduce the psychological and physical barrier that is State and Union?

A start would be retail in the ground floor of the garages coupled with a better sidewalk and crosswalk situation.

martt12

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thelakelander

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #39 on: September 12, 2019, 11:04:22 PM »
The school has been working to change from for-profit to non-profit.  Given that and the direction the school is going, I wonder if UNF could absorb them.  Jax needs more graduate programs to take us to the next level and law would be among the easier ones to implement.

The article says that failed:

Quote
The dean and a professor of law at Florida Coastal School of Law in Jacksonville abruptly resigned Tuesday afternoon a day after learning the college was denied nonprofit status.

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190911/dean-of-struggling-florida-coastal-school-of-law-in-jacksonville-abruptly-resigns
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

marcuscnelson

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2019, 12:43:49 AM »
The article says that failed:
Quote
The dean and a professor of law at Florida Coastal School of Law in Jacksonville abruptly resigned Tuesday afternoon a day after learning the college was denied nonprofit status.

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190911/dean-of-struggling-florida-coastal-school-of-law-in-jacksonville-abruptly-resigns

How does this happen? Why were they denied?

marcuscnelson

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #41 on: September 13, 2019, 01:00:56 AM »
Here are some developer suggestions https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-first-baptist-church-property-no-limit-what-you-could-do-here

Let's see here…

Quote
Oldenburg said Tuesday it’s an opportunity for something “civic-minded” to be developed Downtown. For example, the six continuous blocks could accommodate a large medical facility.

He said Colliers is working with two undisclosed hospital groups looking for expansion space although he would not say if there is interest in the First Baptist property.

Medical, interesting possibility. Would Shands want to move further into downtown? I assume Baptist would want to keep its investment in the Southbank contiguous. Ascension is pretty close too, in Riverside. Mayo also has a sizable investment where it is now, which it is expanding. I could perhaps see Memorial looking into such a thing, depending on how invested they are on University.

Quote
Oldenburg said a large multifamily development on the site also would work because Downtown boosters like JAX Chamber and Downtown Vision Inc. are pushing to reach a goal of 10,000 residents in the urban core.

It depends, I guess. The Middle School building looks especially suited for conversion into multifamily, and also perhaps some of the smaller buildings. The others I wouldn't be so sure about.

Quote
That echoes comments Sunday by Downtown Investment Authority CEO Lori Boyer who sees the six connected blocks as a spot for a medical innovation campus or expansion for a higher education institution, like the neighboring Florida State College at Jacksonville.

FSCJ seems to like its current spot, and I've talked about medical above. UNF or JU could certainly be in an interesting position to send some business downtown, and if FCSL can get its crap together maybe they could too.

Quote
Elias Hionides is vice president of Petra, a family-owned real estate brokerage that specializes in redevelopment of property in Downtown and Springfield.

He sees a mix of high-density residential development and commercial office space as the best use for the site.

Bold move, Cotton.

Quote
Hionides suggests the sale could be an opportunity for the Duval County Public Schools to relocate its 1701 Prudential Drive headquarters into the city’s civic core from the Southbank riverfront, which would open that site for redevelopment.

“It’s a very good and obvious choice,” he said.

Hionides said the First Baptist children’s building matches the school district’s needs.

Huh. That's… interesting, actually. Could be nice to open up another riverfront parcel, assuming the District ever actually happens.

Now it's time to talk money!

Quote
A starting point could be $40 per square foot for the land, which would price the land at $21.2 million.

Obviously they're not going to let it all go for less than the loan they're taking.

Quote
Oldenburg said the closest comparison is the former Florida Baptist Convention complex. That facility occupied a block on Hendricks Avenue in San Marco and sold for $6.15 million to Chadbourne II LLC in June 2017.  It will be redeveloped into 345 apartments, parking and 5,500 square feet of retail space.

Extending that sale price by nine blocks would put an estimated listing price for First Baptist’s Downtown campus at $55.35 million.

That's… better, but still doesn't sound like enough. I would think given the sizable structures on all that land would put the entire complex closer to $100 mil, although given the deferred maintenance it probably wouldn't cross that line.

We'll see when the offers start going public.

Kerry

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #42 on: September 13, 2019, 08:45:40 AM »
Question for you urbanists out there . . . what are your development suggestions for these blocks/parcels that would allow bleed over Union and State to reduce the psychological and physical barrier that is State and Union?

Step 1 will have to be clearing out the local homeless population, which will be a challenge with the Rosa Park bus transit terminal and all the free food.  Step 2...doesn't happen until Step 1 is solved.
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acme54321

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #43 on: September 13, 2019, 10:15:38 AM »
Question for you urbanists out there . . . what are your development suggestions for these blocks/parcels that would allow bleed over Union and State to reduce the psychological and physical barrier that is State and Union?

Step 1 will have to be clearing out the local homeless population, which will be a challenge with the Rosa Park bus transit terminal and all the free food.  Step 2...doesn't happen until Step 1 is solved.

Bingo.  Like it or not that's the truth.  The general public's perception about that entire area is not great.  The reason is pretty obvious.

Live_Oak

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Re: First Baptist Ready To Sell Nine Blocks of Downtown Jax
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2019, 10:19:01 AM »
Keep in mind that the Rosa Parks station won't be JTA's transit hub much longer. The JRTC is planned to open next year with all the bus bays moving over there.

I believe JTA will then market Rosa Parks as a TOD.