Author Topic: Florida Times-Union: Don’t demolish the Landing before examining adaptive reuse  (Read 15890 times)

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30973
    • Modern Cities
San Marco doesn't compete with 5-Points for businesses, which in turn doesn't compete with Avondale, which in turn doesn't compete with Springfield (because all of them have anti-growth populations and civic groups).

However, in cities that are much smaller geographically, there's much more of an incentive to not let retail go to places like Town Center where they wouldn't pay city taxes. Here's that a non-issue.

In Florida, from my knowledge the cities simply annex the land where newest mall or lifestyle center wants to go. They haven't been much different from Jax. Most have just gotten their act together regarding their downtowns since the 1990s. It's been pretty crazy to see how Florida cities have annexed land to get to properties and developments they view as beneficial to their bottom line. Now there is a legal way for cities to annex property without the property even being contiguous with their limits.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

avonjax

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 835
Can someone make a list of the demolition that has taken place since Curry has become mayor? Another Ed Austin maybe? The scars will be with us for decades. He sure will change the look of Jacksonville but for the worst.

Steve

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3412
Can someone make a list of the demolition that has taken place since Curry has become mayor? Another Ed Austin maybe? The scars will be with us for decades. He sure will change the look of Jacksonville but for the worst.

The difference is with Ed Austin, I don't think they "got it" because many cities besides Jacksonville believed demolition was the right thing to do (though many cities had figured it out).

Now, nearly every city understands that demolition for vacant lots doesn't help. We just don't seem to see it.

Tacachale

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7843
Can someone make a list of the demolition that has taken place since Curry has become mayor? Another Ed Austin maybe? The scars will be with us for decades. He sure will change the look of Jacksonville but for the worst.

The difference is with Ed Austin, I don't think they "got it" because many cities besides Jacksonville believed demolition was the right thing to do (though many cities had figured it out).

Now, nearly every city understands that demolition for vacant lots doesn't help. We just don't seem to see it.

100%. Austin also built and renovated things (TUCPA, St. James Building, the stadium, zoo expansion) and got us the Jaguars.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

KenFSU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3946
https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190701/1-million-jacksonville-landing-demolition-set-for-fall

Good news, the iconic orange roof will be carefully removed and sold for scrap!

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30973
    • Modern Cities
Lol, so we really don't have a clue. Businesses kicked out over the last month and now downtown is a complete ghost town at night and on weekends. But we at least now know that a RFP to figure out what to do next won't be put out until the end of 2019 at the earliest. The clock is ticking and we're now on the record for looking at a hole of inactivity for at least the rest of 2019.

Btw, they're unilaterally making a decision to limit economic opportunity by razing first with no clue of what really comes next...

Quote
As for The Jacksonville Landing, Curry, who started his second term Monday, told reporters the city will put out a request for proposals after the demolition of the Landing at the end of 2019 to determine the Downtown riverfront property’s “highest and best use.”

The city has contracted with  Plant City-based D.H Griffin Wrecking Co Inc. to demolish the closed shopping center for $1.074 million beginning in September. City officials say the demolition should be complete by the end of December.

The mayor’s office has been vague about what will replace the Landing. Curry said he’d like to see a public green space incorporated into a final design, and city Chief Administrative Officer Brian Hughes said in May there will “likely” be at least two developable pads for mixed-use space.

“Contrary to what some have said, I’ve never suggested that should just be a green space. It’s my opinion that part of that should be a green space,” Curry said. “That’s my opinion at this point. I don’t get to unilaterally make that decision, but I’d like to see a piece of green space there and what will the market bear there — what iconic thing can we put there that will serve Jacksonville well.”

Full article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/mayor-expect-deal-with-shad-khan-on-lot-j-development-by-end-of-summer

« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 04:12:35 PM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Tacachale

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7843
Lol, so we really don't have a clue. Businesses kicked out over the last month and now downtown is a complete ghost town at night and on weekends. But we at least now know that a RFP to figure out what to do next won't be put out until the end of 2019 at the earliest. The clock is ticking and we're now on the record for looking at a hole of inactivity for at least the rest of 2019.

Btw, they're unilaterally making a decision to limit economic opportunity by razing first with no clue of what really comes next...

Quote
As for The Jacksonville Landing, Curry, who started his second term Monday, told reporters the city will put out a request for proposals after the demolition of the Landing at the end of 2019 to determine the Downtown riverfront property’s “highest and best use.”

The city has contracted with  Plant City-based D.H Griffin Wrecking Co Inc. to demolish the closed shopping center for $1.074 million beginning in September. City officials say the demolition should be complete by the end of December.

The mayor’s office has been vague about what will replace the Landing. Curry said he’d like to see a public green space incorporated into a final design, and city Chief Administrative Officer Brian Hughes said in May there will “likely” be at least two developable pads for mixed-use space.

“Contrary to what some have said, I’ve never suggested that should just be a green space. It’s my opinion that part of that should be a green space,” Curry said. “That’s my opinion at this point. I don’t get to unilaterally make that decision, but I’d like to see a piece of green space there and what will the market bear there — what iconic thing can we put there that will serve Jacksonville well.”

Full article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/mayor-expect-deal-with-shad-khan-on-lot-j-development-by-end-of-summer

This quote:

Quote

“Contrary to what some have said, I’ve never suggested that should just be a green space. It’s my opinion that part of that should be a green space,”

.

This is literally the only thing the city has suggested for this space, and it's mostly just grass:



And whether the mayor thinks it should be green space, it will be a green space for some time.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Charles Hunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3000
^
Quote
“Contrary to what some have said, I’ve never suggested that should just be a green space. It’s my opinion that part of that should be a green space,” Curry said.

Look at the drawing again, "part of that" is green space, there are two buildings there. Well, a very large part of it is green space.

Quote
And whether the mayor thinks it should be green space, it will be a green space for some time.  Perhaps some green weeds.

You are giving them more credit than I do. I think it will be more brown (dead grass and dirt) than it will be green.

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30973
    • Modern Cities
It's hard to believe the city put down new sod at the shipyards less than ten years ago. The Landing will be a great place to park and watch an occasional fireworks show without ever getting out of your car.

"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Kiva

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 382
^
Quote
“Contrary to what some have said, I’ve never suggested that should just be a green space. It’s my opinion that part of that should be a green space,” Curry said.

Look at the drawing again, "part of that" is green space, there are two buildings there. Well, a very large part of it is green space.

Quote
And whether the mayor thinks it should be green space, it will be a green space for some time.  Perhaps some green weeds.

You are giving them more credit than I do. I think it will be more brown (dead grass and dirt) than it will be green.
Well, our favorite mayor recently said "You will not recognize Downtown in four years." He didn't say it would be better, he just said unrecognizable. Dead grass instead of the Landing counts! https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/currys-next-four-years-mayor-says-hes-going-to-make-downtown-a-destination

Ken_FSU

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 340
Quote
The mayor’s office has been vague about what will replace the Landing. Curry said he’d like to see a public green space incorporated into a final design, and city Chief Administrative Officer Brian Hughes said in May there will “likely” be at least two developable pads for mixed-use space.

“Contrary to what some have said, I’ve never suggested that should just be a green space. It’s my opinion that part of that should be a green space,” Curry said. “That’s my opinion at this point. I don’t get to unilaterally make that decision, but I’d like to see a piece of green space there and what will the market bear there — what iconic thing can we put there that will serve Jacksonville well.”

So I know there's no plan yet, but I'm a little confused about the above and what we'll actually RFP.

Do you guys get the impression that we'll RFP the entire property for master development, perhaps with a list of requirements similar to the convention center RFP (e.g. X amount of greenspace, x amount of retail, etc.)?

Or will the city define the layout, map out the pads, manage all the greenspace, and just RFP development of the specific pads?

Who determines what the market will bear?

Hopefully not the same people who determined what the market could bear for the convention center RFP.


thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30973
    • Modern Cities
^To me it sounds like you could see two RFP rounds. An initial RFP to help determine highest and best use....similar to what's being done with the courthouse site now....but something a downtown master plan should have addressed years ago. Once that study reveals whatever they want it too, a second RFP will be created to find the entity to do just that. The downfall of this is as witnessed in the past, all responses can be rejected and then you're back to square one. Overall, this entire thing is simply lighting tax money on fire while downtown deals with a self inflicted dead hole in its heart for the years that this unnecessary process will consume.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Kerry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1882
"What the market will bear" is code for "don't do anything that will compete with Lot J".
Third Place

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30973
    • Modern Cities
Basically the "market will bear" whatever they want it to say in the "highest and best" use RFP they'll create. It's so silly it's 2019 and we're still dealing with this type of foolishness.

If they really wanted to know what the highest and best use would be or cared about public input, they would have worked to get that information before spending $22 million to pay off Sleiman, kicking out 30 existing businesses and razing the place. As a result of not really caring, we're now dealing with a situation where foot traffic in downtown may be at an all time low.....despite two of the largest urban revitalization periods in U.S. history taking place since 2000.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 09:12:26 AM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

I-10east

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5443
I'm with everyone saying that hastily demoing the Landing is a huge mistake. The fireworks show last night was bittersweet with it being the last one with the Landing still being there. Our riverfront skyline will look very weird without the Landing.