Author Topic: Florida Times-Union: Don’t demolish the Landing before examining adaptive reuse  (Read 7706 times)

Steve

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Maybe he was talking about his Boston City Hall that is so universally hated that Harvard and MIT have an annual competition to design a replacement.

Just curious - was it hated when built...and are you referring to the building, the plaza, or both?

It depends on who you ask.  The general public hated it from day one.  The architecture community gave him an award.

Just for fun...

https://www.citylab.com/design/2019/05/revisiting-im-pei-plan-oklahoma-city-urban-renewal-architecture/589666/?utm_source=newsletter&silverid=%25%25RECIPIENT_ID%25%25&utm_campaign=citylab-daily-newsletter&utm_medium=email

Regardless of any of that, IM Pei didn't design Boston's City Hall. It was a professor and student from Columbia that went on to open their firm after winning the design competition for this thing.

Regardless, some buildings really stand the test of time. Jacksonville's City Hall is one of them. This one, on the other hand, is awful.

I get the whole Brutalist architecture, but this just doesn't work from a plaza standpoint, building standpoint, or anything.

KenFSU

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$450,000 in taxpayer money will be spent to buy out BBVA's lease.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-reaches-buyout-deal-with-landings-last-business

Let's do some quick math.

Fionn MacCool's lease was bought out for $550,000.

Taxpayers paid $303,000 to boot Hooters from their newly refurbished space.

And there's currently $178k remaining in the $1.5 million fund set up to buy out leases and help relocate tenants, which the city does not expect to award per the article.

So, with $1.5 million approved by City Council in part to help downtown businesses relocate as the result of the closure, and approximately 30 businesses being forced from the Landing, a grand total of $19,000 max was distributed to help small business owners find a new place to set up shop.

1% of the budget spent on relocation.

$600 per business, max.

Great job to all involved.




Kerry

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Jacksonville: the only city in America trying to reurbanize downtown by kicking existing businesses out.  Bold move Cotton.  Let's see if it works.
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thelakelander

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Been in London the past couple of days and have spent some time in quite a few public markets. Many of these spaces not dramatically different from the Landing that have been reused a number of times over centuries. It's a shame that the city is so clueless when it comes to stuff like this. $22 million and counting and all Jax will have to show for it is 30 less businesses, hundreds of jobs lost and a blank hole where 125,000 square feet of perfectly fine flexible space could have been used for literally anything to help activate the core. What's funny is the group I'm with never goes downtown. Discussing it at dinner last night, half of them weren't even aware. They represent the type of suburban residents some so desperately want to attract in DT but some have complained about London (too much walking, taking trains, not wanting to eat anything other than American fare, etc.). They didn't go to the Landing and they certainly aren't going to a dirt field or passive lawn but we continue to focus on them more than the people who are already there and want to be there. Being a resident, it sucks but in reality we'll likely get what we deserve and it won't be what the mayor is selling.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 06:57:45 PM by thelakelander »
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Kerry

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Lakelander, you keep reinforcing my belief that the problem with trying to urbanize Jacksonville is cultural.  I even see it members of my own family that grew up in Jacksonville.
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Adam White

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Lakelander, you keep reinforcing my belief that the problem with trying to urbanize Jacksonville is cultural.  I even see it members of my own family that grew up in Jacksonville.

But 'culture' is mutable. Jacksonville hasn't always been the way it is. Decades of failed plans and bad ideas have got us to where we are today - maybe some bold leadership and successes will change the outlook of the average Jacksonvillian naysayer.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

Kerry

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If Jacksonville is going to urbanize it is going to have to happen without the help of City Hall.
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Snufflee

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Lakelander, you keep reinforcing my belief that the problem with trying to urbanize Jacksonville is cultural.  I even see it members of my own family that grew up in Jacksonville.

I am going to agree with Kerry here, maybe "cultural" isn't the perfect word but I can't think of another word to replace it with. My wife's family is all North/West Side. To have a conversation with them on growth, urban development, good schools and the like is akin to Satan himself bursting out of the pulpit at Sunday Church followed by a string of racial slurs that include uppity and something something Cubans from Miami. Not to mention that Shad Khan certainly can't be trusted.. not in any business sense but based on where he is from.

Its like talking to brick walls, and these are folks who range from 35 - 75. I know its anecdotal, but it is a cluster of diseased cells in a city with so much potential.
And so it goes

KenFSU

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From Cordish's YouTube channel, of all places:

https://youtu.be/90KAu9zv72c

Adam White

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Lakelander, you keep reinforcing my belief that the problem with trying to urbanize Jacksonville is cultural.  I even see it members of my own family that grew up in Jacksonville.

I am going to agree with Kerry here, maybe "cultural" isn't the perfect word but I can't think of another word to replace it with. My wife's family is all North/West Side. To have a conversation with them on growth, urban development, good schools and the like is akin to Satan himself bursting out of the pulpit at Sunday Church followed by a string of racial slurs that include uppity and something something Cubans from Miami. Not to mention that Shad Khan certainly can't be trusted.. not in any business sense but based on where he is from.

Its like talking to brick walls, and these are folks who range from 35 - 75. I know its anecdotal, but it is a cluster of diseased cells in a city with so much potential.

Y'all need to read Freakonomics.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

Snufflee

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Lakelander, you keep reinforcing my belief that the problem with trying to urbanize Jacksonville is cultural.  I even see it members of my own family that grew up in Jacksonville.

I am going to agree with Kerry here, maybe "cultural" isn't the perfect word but I can't think of another word to replace it with. My wife's family is all North/West Side. To have a conversation with them on growth, urban development, good schools and the like is akin to Satan himself bursting out of the pulpit at Sunday Church followed by a string of racial slurs that include uppity and something something Cubans from Miami. Not to mention that Shad Khan certainly can't be trusted.. not in any business sense but based on where he is from.

Its like talking to brick walls, and these are folks who range from 35 - 75. I know its anecdotal, but it is a cluster of diseased cells in a city with so much potential.

Y'all need to read Freakonomics.

I prefer Bullshit Jobs and Debt the First 5000 Years as modern economic analysis and Das Kapital as well as System of Economical Contradictions.
And so it goes

Kerry

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Lakelander, you keep reinforcing my belief that the problem with trying to urbanize Jacksonville is cultural.  I even see it members of my own family that grew up in Jacksonville.

I am going to agree with Kerry here, maybe "cultural" isn't the perfect word but I can't think of another word to replace it with. My wife's family is all North/West Side. To have a conversation with them on growth, urban development, good schools and the like is akin to Satan himself bursting out of the pulpit at Sunday Church followed by a string of racial slurs that include uppity and something something Cubans from Miami. Not to mention that Shad Khan certainly can't be trusted.. not in any business sense but based on where he is from.

Its like talking to brick walls, and these are folks who range from 35 - 75. I know its anecdotal, but it is a cluster of diseased cells in a city with so much potential.

Y'all need to read Freakonomics.

It is only Jacksonville though.  Every other city, town, village in the entire country is already urbanizing, and has been for 20 years or more.  Then we have Jacksonville.  How does Freakonomics explain that?
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sanmarcomatt

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It is only Jacksonville though.  Every other city, town, village in the entire country is already urbanizing

But I find hamlets are still behind the times on urbanizing so we have that going for us.

Kerry

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I tried to explain it another post awhile back but I think it comes down to a lack of competition.  Competition for jobs, companies, tourist, and citizens at the regional level and no competition within the city.

We don't have any natural resources to mine and no primary industries to compete with.  We maybe at one time had banking but we surrendered to Charlotte decades ago.  San Marco doesn't compete with 5-Points for businesses, which in turn doesn't compete with Avondale, which in turn doesn't compete with Springfield (because all of them have anti-growth populations and civic groups).

We don't have any suburbs that compete thanks to consoludation (actually - did any towns even get absorbed into Jax other than the 3 beach communities that eventually broke away again).

We have a lack of higher education.  JU, UNF, and FSCJ - that's it.  You might not like the comparison but Oklahoma City has 19 (and that doesn't include for-profit schools).  Metro-Atlanta has 57.  Hell, Daytona Beach even has 4.

In short - we don't have anyone to compete with for anything - so we just get fat and lazy.

To add to this - my wife works at a major Jacksonville employer and they have hundreds of positions they can't fill because they can't get people to move here so they are staffed with huge amounts of contractors.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 10:31:14 AM by Kerry »
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Adam White

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Lakelander, you keep reinforcing my belief that the problem with trying to urbanize Jacksonville is cultural.  I even see it members of my own family that grew up in Jacksonville.

I am going to agree with Kerry here, maybe "cultural" isn't the perfect word but I can't think of another word to replace it with. My wife's family is all North/West Side. To have a conversation with them on growth, urban development, good schools and the like is akin to Satan himself bursting out of the pulpit at Sunday Church followed by a string of racial slurs that include uppity and something something Cubans from Miami. Not to mention that Shad Khan certainly can't be trusted.. not in any business sense but based on where he is from.

Its like talking to brick walls, and these are folks who range from 35 - 75. I know its anecdotal, but it is a cluster of diseased cells in a city with so much potential.

Y'all need to read Freakonomics.

It is only Jacksonville though.  Every other city, town, village in the entire country is already urbanizing, and has been for 20 years or more.  Then we have Jacksonville.  How does Freakonomics explain that?

Read the book.

The issue is that people won't change their behaviours without incentive to do so - but they do when there is sufficient incentive. People from Jacksonville are no different than people from anywhere else.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”