Author Topic: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes  (Read 6860 times)

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #60 on: August 08, 2019, 10:45:24 AM »
The DIA needs to proactively reach out to both parties and see how DIA can encourage them to develop other properties downtown.

This.

It's obvious there's interest, and striking while the iron's hot is key. 

It's a shame we don't have multiple vacant properties all over the core that need developing....
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thelakelander

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #61 on: August 08, 2019, 11:01:44 AM »
While Wendland's scoring may be questionable, I think "fix" and "set up to win" are two different things. The devil is always in the details. Compelling evidence for set up to win can be found in the scoring criteria:

1. Financial Resources (20 points)
2. Past Development Experience (20 points)
3. Consistency with Northbank Plan (30 points)
4. Relationship to Park (15 points)
5. Return on Investment (15 points)

60 points deal with the merits of the proposed development itself. 40 points deal with the team proposing said development. When it boils down to past development experience, it all depends on interpretation. If perceived as past development experience in downtown, basically that's set up for the dominant player with past projects in downtown to score more points. If that's past development experience with similar types of missing middle housing, it opens the door more to entities that may not have a significant portfolio within downtown Jax itself. It would be interesting to compare the make-up of the scoring criteria with those used in peer cities that are generally accepted as being more successful with past downtown revitalization efforts. Minor tweaks in little things like this, to open the playing field a bit more, can result in big overall economic dividends for downtown down the road. Even if the dominant player wins, the final product is generally improved because of the overall competition.

Finally, and Barakat acknowledged it: There is CLEARLY interest in developing the surplus City Owned property. They didn't expect anyone to actually compete against Vestcor here, but two people did (one better than the other in my eyes). The DIA needs to proactively reach out to both parties and see how DIA can encourage them to develop other properties downtown.

Been saying this since I moved to town. There has always been interest. That's way Riverside, San Marco, Springfield, Murray Hill, etc. attract the interest they do. We just have to be willing to embrace market rate inclusion and more diversified participation within the CBD revitalization game.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 11:06:57 AM by thelakelander »
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Steve

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #62 on: August 08, 2019, 11:08:16 AM »
The DIA needs to proactively reach out to both parties and see how DIA can encourage them to develop other properties downtown.

This.

It's obvious there's interest, and striking while the iron's hot is key. 

It's a shame we don't have multiple vacant properties all over the core that need developing....

Funny you mentioned this. Todd Froats of the board mentioned that whoever wins needs to get moving because there's a recession coming. Now, that statement isn't (by itself) wrong.

But, it makes you wonder why there is so much city owned property sitting vacant that they aren't actively trying to sell? This parcel in question has been city owned for many, many years.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 12:28:57 PM by Steve »

vicupstate

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #63 on: August 08, 2019, 12:46:39 PM »
As far as Financial Resources, it shoud be more of a pass/fail situation rather than a ranking between contenders.  As long as there is sufficient stability and equity/liquidity to actually complete the project (the 'pass' criteria), it isn't going to matter afterwards if it was built by a $200 million company or a $400 million company. If it doesn't pass, then they aren't even considered on the other points.

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Steve

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #64 on: August 08, 2019, 12:58:46 PM »
As far as Financial Resources, it shoud be more of a pass/fail situation rather than a ranking between contenders.  As long as there is sufficient stability and equity/liquidity to actually complete the project (the 'pass' criteria), it isn't going to matter afterwards if it was built by a $200 million company or a $400 million company. If it doesn't pass, then they aren't even considered on the other points.



Mixed feelings on this. I see your point, but I don’t think it’s completely unreasonable to have a sliding scale since if things go wrong and the economy tanks, you don’t want an Auchter Company-Courthouse situation.

Remember that one?

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #65 on: August 08, 2019, 01:33:22 PM »

Mixed feelings on this. I see your point, but I don’t think it’s completely unreasonable to have a sliding scale since if things go wrong and the economy tanks, you don’t want an Auchter Company-Courthouse situation.

Remember that one?

If I remember correctly, though, their finances were just fine until they decided to dip their toes in the multi-family market right before a major housing crash... 

So they would have scored just fine financially, but would have taken a big hit on the 'similar project' side of things. 

To which Sifakis also brings up an excellent point in the article:
Quote
The criteria developed by the DIA calls for past development experience to be “similar in scope” to the proposed development plan.

For the past 10 years, Vestcor’s focus has been in the rental market and it has not developed a for-sale residential product since 2008.

So the review board should have definitely called out Wendland over his score - which ended up being a major difference in awarding the project.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 01:34:55 PM by Non-RedNeck Westsider »
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Captain Zissou

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2019, 01:53:34 PM »
If I remember correctly, though, their finances were just fine until they decided to dip their toes in the multi-family market right before a major housing crash... 

So they would have scored just fine financially, but would have taken a big hit on the 'similar project' side of things. 
This is how I remember it as well.  Auchter was doing very well just prior to the crash.  They were building 1661 Riverside, The Strand/Peninsula, the office complex at the beach that now houses Pussers and Ruth's Chris, and some others that I don't recall.  In fact, they were doing so well that they would provide monthly construction updates with photos shot from a helicopter. 

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2019, 01:58:20 PM »
This is how I remember it as well.  Auchter was doing very well just prior to the crash.  They were building 1661 Riverside, The Strand/Peninsula, the office complex at the beach that now houses Pussers and Ruth's Chris, and some others that I don't recall.  In fact, they were doing so well that they would provide monthly construction updates with photos shot from a helicopter.

The Strand was the last one I believe.  Skanska ended up as the GC of the Peninsula as Auchter had just bit the farm right before vertical construction had begun.  Many of their supers signed on with Skanska, so it was kind of a weird working environment.

They were in the middle of construction of that complex that was just recently completed at San Jose/Baymeadows and several other multi-family projects along the coast when the bottom dropped.
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vicupstate

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2019, 02:45:36 PM »
As far as Financial Resources, it shoud be more of a pass/fail situation rather than a ranking between contenders.  As long as there is sufficient stability and equity/liquidity to actually complete the project (the 'pass' criteria), it isn't going to matter afterwards if it was built by a $200 million company or a $400 million company. If it doesn't pass, then they aren't even considered on the other points.



Mixed feelings on this. I see your point, but I don’t think it’s completely unreasonable to have a sliding scale since if things go wrong and the economy tanks, you don’t want an Auchter Company-Courthouse situation.

Remember that one?

I do. But they were a pretty big player were they not? Even the big players can and do tank.  The financials are only a point in time snapshot. The Independent Life/Modis/Wells Fargo building was built by Auchter but what difference does that make now? There will be risk during the construction period regardless. You certainly want to minimize it, but nothing is guranteed.     
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tufsu1

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #69 on: August 08, 2019, 09:40:09 PM »
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?

I was part of two selections today - in both cases the selection committee went with the initial rankings from the written proposals - we spent probably $40,000 on the two presentations. Seriously folks, if you don't want serious competition, just go with the initial submittals and save everyone the time and money.

jaxjags

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #70 on: August 10, 2019, 01:10:32 PM »
+10,000

Ken_FSU

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #71 on: August 21, 2019, 08:38:09 PM »
DIA tables unsolicited bid from Blackwater (one of the groups that lost out to Vestcor) for 7 parcels in Lavilla.

Also, Vestcor has agreed to make their townhome project more like Johnson Commons (limited retail facing park, nods to historic architectural styles).

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/blackwater-capital-offers-to-buy-develop-city-owned-property-in-lavilla

thelakelander

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #72 on: August 21, 2019, 10:24:41 PM »
Nice follow up from Lori Boyer and Vestcor.
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Steve

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #73 on: August 21, 2019, 11:44:12 PM »
Agreed. I’ll reserve judgement until such time it goes to DDRB but that’s a positive step

itsfantastic1

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #74 on: August 22, 2019, 12:19:07 PM »
While I'm completely on board with changes to more closely match the Johnson Commons bid, is this legal? Vestcor won the bid based on the original design and now they can tweak the project to mirror elements of the runner up? While it's a definite win for downtown, how does this not discourage people from bidding? It appears to send the message that if you aren't the preferred company; you'll never be chosen but your design elements can still be used by the winning team. Am I missing something about bidding for contracts?