Author Topic: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes  (Read 7458 times)

CityLife

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #45 on: August 07, 2019, 09:23:33 AM »
The fact that there is not a qualitative component of the scoring for aesthetics, landscaping, and quality of architecture is mind boggling.

Steve

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #46 on: August 07, 2019, 02:16:23 PM »
At the DIA meeting now. Wasn't thrilled about being the first speaker, but let's see how it goes. So far 5 speakers, all in favor of Johnson.

Captain Zissou

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #47 on: August 07, 2019, 03:43:53 PM »
What was the result of the meeting?  Did the city decide to scrap the RFP due to a late submission from Iguana?

thelakelander

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #48 on: August 07, 2019, 03:49:14 PM »
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2019, 03:56:14 PM by thelakelander »
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Wacca Pilatka

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #49 on: August 07, 2019, 04:07:39 PM »
Any sense of whether the Johnson team could be persuaded to propose a similar development for a different parcel in LaVilla if that were up for RFP?
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thelakelander

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #50 on: August 07, 2019, 04:20:41 PM »
I hope so but that's ultimately up to them. As for Vestcor, at least this process led them to slightly increase their density. However, it's unfortunate that the most retail ready block in that area will be used for 100% residential instead.
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Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #51 on: August 07, 2019, 05:17:18 PM »
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?
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Peter Griffin

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #52 on: August 07, 2019, 05:21:17 PM »
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?

Optics, a facade. "We took your concerns into consideration, but ultimately decided to ignore them"

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #53 on: August 07, 2019, 05:31:09 PM »
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?

Optics, a facade. "We took your concerns into consideration, but ultimately decided to ignore them"

To me, the optics are just as bad.  Worse, actually, but I guess that's because I work in the industry.

There's a certain GC in town that routinely sends out RFPs.  Over the years I've gotten roughly 2% of the bids I've submitted and have known for a 100% fact that I've been low on several others.  I don't waste my time anymore. 

This is only going to convince other bidders to 'not waste their time' anymore as these parcels come up in RFPs.  Vestcor doesn't have to worry about competition, and that's how we end up with the bullshit that we end up with. 
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Peter Griffin

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #54 on: August 07, 2019, 05:37:30 PM »
Yeah, seems pretty nepotistic. I appreciate what Vestcor is doing, but they don't necessarily deserve a monopoly on Jacksonville midrise housing projects near the urban core.

I guess the age-old rumors of the "good old boys club" system in Jax is true and alive... It's a shame

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #55 on: August 07, 2019, 05:41:54 PM »
Yeah, seems pretty nepotistic. I appreciate what Vestcor is doing, but they don't necessarily deserve a monopoly on Jacksonville midrise housing projects near the urban core.

I guess the age-old rumors of the "good old boys club" system in Jax is true and alive... It's a shame

It is.

I guess it's time to move somewhere else....   ;D ;D ;D
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ProjectMaximus

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #56 on: August 07, 2019, 11:38:47 PM »
Yeah, seems pretty nepotistic. I appreciate what Vestcor is doing, but they don't necessarily deserve a monopoly on Jacksonville midrise housing projects near the urban core.

I guess the age-old rumors of the "good old boys club" system in Jax is true and alive... It's a shame

It is.

I guess it's time to move somewhere else....   ;D ;D ;D


Mandarin?

Steve

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thelakelander

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #58 on: August 08, 2019, 10:21:18 AM »
^Ultimately, the scoring criteria boils down to it pretty much being set up for Vestcor to win. The scoring scale was way too high for "experience specifically with bidded projects in downtown" and way to low for return of investment. If a response has the financial resources and experience required to pull off their better proposal, we should accept less primarily due to being comfortable with a known entity. However, that set of values was not properly weighted with the scoring criteria. Moving forward, downtown advocates need to keep a better eye on the little things like this within the way RFPs are written and evaluated.

I hope the Vestcor project does well and they continue to invest in the area. However, the reality is we just gave away three blocks of land for free, for an inferior proposal to LaVilla, downtown and taxpayers because being more comfortable with a known entity. If we're going to practice what we preach in regards to truly densifying and rapidly revitalizing the area, we need to be able to open the economic development door to a larger pool of players and resources. If not, that capital and needed innovation and diversity is going to continue to flow to other areas.

Funny thing is, even though the gift was still given to Vestcor, because of the competition from two additional responses who paid attention to the quietly released RFP, they went back and increased the density and amount of money donated from their initial offer. That says a lot about what downtown's true market may be, what us sheep are led to believe locally and the opportunities we've likely missed in the past.

« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 10:26:02 AM by thelakelander »
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Steve

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #59 on: August 08, 2019, 10:28:29 AM »
My impression from being there:

 - Jim Bailey (the chair of the DIA) wasn't there, which at a minimum I believe didn't help the conversation. I would have liked to hear his thoughts
 - Oliver Barakat definitely spoke well. While I haven't agreed with everything he's said during his time on various Downtown Boards I feel like, based on what I heard, he gets it the most.

I think the bottom line is this (and I'm going to assume that the "fix" wasn't in until I get compelling evidence otherwise): Aside from Barakat and Moody, the board wasn't going to go against the committee's decision here unless they believed that the committee made a major mistake in it's evaluation. With that said, I personally believe Kirk Wendland did make a pretty major mistake in favoring Vestcor that significantly over Johnson. Vestcor has plenty of LaVilla experience with apartments. They however do not have that significant of experience in the for sale townhome market, which Johnson common does. I could see an argument to slightly favor Vestcor in experience (to the tune of what Boyer and Barakat did in their scoring), but not nearly that dramatically. This alone would have shifted Johnson to be the winner

Finally, and Barakat acknowledged it: There is CLEARLY interest in developing the surplus City Owned property. They didn't expect anyone to actually compete against Vestcor here, but two people did (one better than the other in my eyes). The DIA needs to proactively reach out to both parties and see how DIA can encourage them to develop other properties downtown.