Author Topic: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?  (Read 2456 times)

vicupstate

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2019, 01:18:44 PM »
Quote
I think there is a strong enough track record of wasted "non-jags"money to give us a pretty clear picture . And how about the Better Jacksonville plan*** boondoggle? Yeah, that was used efficiently with brilliant DT results.

As far as the DT projects, everything in BJP got built. The courthouse has a significant cost overun, but it still got built. The escalation in construction costs were widespread and affected the whole country. The magnitude of it could not have been forsee when the plan was first voted on.

The only thing that didn't happen that was promised that I know of, was funding set aside for mass transit.  IIRC, that was Peyton's idea.

I doubt the Strand and Peninsula and other projects of the early 2000's would have happened without the BJP too. Private money follows public money.

Term limits kept Delaney from seeing the plan to completion. Which is as good a reason as needed to repeal them.
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Steve

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2019, 01:25:45 PM »
The courthouse has a significant cost overun, but it still got built. The escalation in construction costs were widespread and affected the whole country. The magnitude of it could not have been forsee when the plan was first voted on.

If Peyton did screw around on this for years it wouldn't have been nearly as bad. It was like every sign was telling him (Act now or this price goes up) and he just sat.

Charles Hunter

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2019, 01:44:55 PM »
Term limits kept Delaney from seeing the plan to completion. Which is as good a reason as needed to repeal them.

And the current occupant of the Mayor's office is as good reason to keep term limits.

Snaketoz

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2019, 01:50:02 PM »
I'll have to agree with sanmarcomatt.  The Jags has been the best investment ever.  Let's face it.  Jacksonville is going to have to bribe, finance, subsidize, whatever you want to call it, to get anything meaningful done downtown.  Curry is destroying the landscape with no plans for what is going to fill in the devastation he has done.  He ran for his 1st term as mayor saying $12 million was too much to pay to revamp the Landing.  He will end up spending $20 million to turn it into a vacant lot.  Why do the taxpayers keep electing these cretins?  Nothing is going to get Jax out of this mess except for a completely new set of voters.  It isn't happening.  We call ourselves the Bold New City of the South, when we are still Cowford.  Thanks to all the rednecks, republicans, and lazy democrats.

sanmarcomatt

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2019, 03:57:39 PM »
Quote
I think there is a strong enough track record of wasted "non-jags"money to give us a pretty clear picture . And how about the Better Jacksonville plan*** boondoggle? Yeah, that was used efficiently with brilliant DT results.

As far as the DT projects, everything in BJP got built. The courthouse has a significant cost overun, but it still got built. The escalation in construction costs were widespread and affected the whole country. The magnitude of it could not have been forsee when the plan was first voted on.

The only thing that didn't happen that was promised that I know of, was funding set aside for mass transit.  IIRC, that was Peyton's idea.

I doubt the Strand and Peninsula and other projects of the early 2000's would have happened without the BJP too. Private money follows public money.

Term limits kept Delaney from seeing the plan to completion. Which is as good a reason as needed to repeal them.

Let's see. Taj mahal courthouse+taj mahal homeless shelter+ amazing sports/entertainment district that clearly helped create a DT that is the envy of urbanists everywhere. Oh, and of course what replaced the old courthouse is less than stellar.All for a joke of a total cost funded by a tax that was supposed to end years ago.

And with a public money spigot that "could"(but won't...ba ha ha ha) remain open for so long, private money flooded in to get this baby passed.

I am not saying BJPO didn't result in positives, but I remain comfortable with the boondoggle label.

vicupstate

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2019, 09:03:09 PM »
Term limits kept Delaney from seeing the plan to completion. Which is as good a reason as needed to repeal them.

And the current occupant of the Mayor's office is as good reason to keep term limits.

The fact that the seat will be open every 8 years keeps good candidates from running against an incumbent. If a Republican wins he is in for 8 years no matter how bad he is. Without term limits someone that thinks they could do better has no reason to wait to bring the fight.
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

vicupstate

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2019, 09:10:47 PM »
Quote
I think there is a strong enough track record of wasted "non-jags"money to give us a pretty clear picture . And how about the Better Jacksonville plan*** boondoggle? Yeah, that was used efficiently with brilliant DT results.

As far as the DT projects, everything in BJP got built. The courthouse has a significant cost overun, but it still got built. The escalation in construction costs were widespread and affected the whole country. The magnitude of it could not have been forsee when the plan was first voted on.

The only thing that didn't happen that was promised that I know of, was funding set aside for mass transit.  IIRC, that was Peyton's idea.

I doubt the Strand and Peninsula and other projects of the early 2000's would have happened without the BJP too. Private money follows public money.

Term limits kept Delaney from seeing the plan to completion. Which is as good a reason as needed to repeal them.

Let's see. Taj mahal courthouse+taj mahal homeless shelter+ amazing sports/entertainment district that clearly helped create a DT that is the envy of urbanists everywhere. Oh, and of course what replaced the old courthouse is less than stellar.All for a joke of a total cost funded by a tax that was supposed to end years ago.

And with a public money spigot that "could"(but won't...ba ha ha ha) remain open for so long, private money flooded in to get this baby passed.

I am not saying BJPO didn't result in positives, but I remain comfortable with the boondoggle label.

Wow. Where do I even begin. There was no homeless shelter included in the BJP. If you are referring to the library. Nothing can be done about that and the old library had the same issue.

The tax was not suppose to end years ago. Total nonsense. From the  beginning it was scheduled to run until the end of the next decade or into the 2030s.

The HIP created a ton of momentum which the crash and Peyton killed.
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

sanmarcomatt

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2019, 08:44:11 AM »
Quote
I think there is a strong enough track record of wasted "non-jags"money to give us a pretty clear picture . And how about the Better Jacksonville plan*** boondoggle? Yeah, that was used efficiently with brilliant DT results.

As far as the DT projects, everything in BJP got built. The courthouse has a significant cost overun, but it still got built. The escalation in construction costs were widespread and affected the whole country. The magnitude of it could not have been forsee when the plan was first voted on.

The only thing that didn't happen that was promised that I know of, was funding set aside for mass transit.  IIRC, that was Peyton's idea.

I doubt the Strand and Peninsula and other projects of the early 2000's would have happened without the BJP too. Private money follows public money.

Term limits kept Delaney from seeing the plan to completion. Which is as good a reason as needed to repeal them.

Let's see. Taj mahal courthouse+taj mahal homeless shelter+ amazing sports/entertainment district that clearly helped create a DT that is the envy of urbanists everywhere. Oh, and of course what replaced the old courthouse is less than stellar.All for a joke of a total cost funded by a tax that was supposed to end years ago.

And with a public money spigot that "could"(but won't...ba ha ha ha) remain open for so long, private money flooded in to get this baby passed.

I am not saying BJPO didn't result in positives, but I remain comfortable with the boondoggle label.

Wow. Where do I even begin. There was no homeless shelter included in the BJP. If you are referring to the library. Nothing can be done about that and the old library had the same issue.

The tax was not suppose to end years ago. Total nonsense. From the  beginning it was scheduled to run until the end of the next decade or into the 2030s.

The HIP created a ton of momentum which the crash and Peyton killed.

Where should you even begin? Maybe finding a sense of humor? "There was no homeless shelter in the BJP". Really, Vic?

Interesting line about the tax originally potentially running into the 2030's, though. Thanks for the info.

My personal favorite BJP memory was talking to the guy who was working on the trim for the Taj Mahal.I mean court house. You know, because nothing but the best for Judges when the public spigot is flowing. The wood and design had to be just right.He was discussing buying houses in Jax for all his employees to stay in while they did the work. Good times.


Kerry

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2019, 10:00:02 AM »
....so now we are going 25 years of deficit funding them at the expense of almost everything else.

What is your source on this?

The Jags themselves.  They have stated multiple times they can't survive in Jax without public assistance.  Even London has to help bail them out every year.
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Steve

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2019, 10:35:39 AM »
....so now we are going 25 years of deficit funding them at the expense of almost everything else.

What is your source on this?

The Jags themselves.  They have stated multiple times they can't survive in Jax without public assistance.  Even London has to help bail them out every year.

Okay, that's a stretch. Yes, the London thing certainly helps the bottom line. That I wouldn't argue. I'd also state that the City doesn't fund that trip.

Plus, I was referring to the "at the expense of everything else". I'm not arguing the City throws the Jags money at times. But, Curry just made $22M appear out of nowhere for the Landing. I assure you, if he wants to spend money he would.

Plus, in your beloved Oklahoma City (which apparently is where the roads are paved with gold), they built an arena entirely at taxpayer expense for the hope of luring an NBA team. It cost about $90 to build, then another $120 once the Sonics moved. The Thunder also get the naming rights form Chesapeake Energy.

Kerry

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2019, 11:22:28 AM »
....so now we are going 25 years of deficit funding them at the expense of almost everything else.

What is your source on this?

The Jags themselves.  They have stated multiple times they can't survive in Jax without public assistance.  Even London has to help bail them out every year.

Okay, that's a stretch. Yes, the London thing certainly helps the bottom line. That I wouldn't argue. I'd also state that the City doesn't fund that trip.

Plus, I was referring to the "at the expense of everything else". I'm not arguing the City throws the Jags money at times. But, Curry just made $22M appear out of nowhere for the Landing. I assure you, if he wants to spend money he would.

Plus, in your beloved Oklahoma City (which apparently is where the roads are paved with gold), they built an arena entirely at taxpayer expense for the hope of luring an NBA team. It cost about $90 to build, then another $120 once the Sonics moved. The Thunder also get the naming rights form Chesapeake Energy.

The $22 million appearing out of nowhere IS a subsidy for the Jags.  The Landing is being torn down so Lot J is the only game in town.  If anyone doesn't know that they aren't paying attention - or don't care.

As for OKC and the Thunder.  The Thunder moved to OKC in 2008.  By that time OKC was already 14 years into MAPS.  The original MAPS passed in 1994 and all 8 projects had already been completed.  Multiple downtown hotels were already completed or under construction.  Bricktown was already a major tourist destination (10,000,000 annual visitors and appearing in multiple travel magazine "must do" lists).  Downtown housing was in ramp up mode (thanks in part to a 2005 housing study done by the City that concluded 5,000 downtown housing units were in immediate demand).

So why say all that?  Because it is the difference in how cities look at their sports teams.  In OKC the Thunder were the result of reurbanization.  The ground work was already done and OKC was hitting on all cylinders.  In Jax the Jags were supposed to be the catalyst that spurred development.  Of course, like cities that go the casino route, sports teams are a cash vacuum and not a broadcast spreader.  They hoard cash not dispense it.  Even in OKC the Thunder have actually had a negative impact.  In the first few years restaurants in Bricktown sang the Thunder's praises, but now many report that Thunder game nights are among their least productive nights - mostly because of lack of parking, time constraints, crowds, food available inside the arena, and people who live downtown now  (their regulars) stay at home.  Basically - the novelty of eating before the game has worn off.  The Thunder have had zero impact of retail and the convention center, horse shows, and regular tourism generate far more hotel nights.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 11:30:03 AM by Kerry »
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Kerry

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2019, 11:35:15 AM »
From the BJP web site:

http://www.coj.net/departments/public-works/better-jacksonville-plan/about-the-plan

Quote
Our roads are better equipped to handle Jacksonville's traffic. The downtown Sports Complex is a vibrant hub of activity. Pedestrians and cyclists have unprecedented access to various destinations. Thousands of acres of environmentally sensitive land has been preserved for future generations.

You can't make this stuff up.
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Steve

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Re: WHY IS LENNY CURRY STILL MAYOR?!?!?
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2019, 01:46:34 PM »
The $22 million appearing out of nowhere IS a subsidy for the Jags.  The Landing is being torn down so Lot J is the only game in town.  If anyone doesn't know that they aren't paying attention - or don't care.

This is too conspiracy theory for me. Sorry. I agree it's a stupid expenditure, but even the Jags wouldn't argue that in a city of 1.5M there can be two entertainment areas.

In OKC the Thunder were the result of reurbanization.  The ground work was already done and OKC was hitting on all cylinders.

I actually agree with you here.

In the first few years restaurants in Bricktown sang the Thunder's praises, but now many report that Thunder game nights are among their least productive nights - mostly because of lack of parking, time constraints, crowds, food available inside the arena, and people who live downtown now  (their regulars) stay at home.  Basically - the novelty of eating before the game has worn off.  The Thunder have had zero impact of retail and the convention center, horse shows, and regular tourism generate far more hotel nights.

While I don't have a source on this, I'd be surprised by this as San Diego reports the exact opposite on Padres game nights. But, I'm not going to take the time to research this.