Storage Center Proposed For Murray Hill's First Block

[KenFSU]

I'd seriously question the reliability of those multiple sources.

[CityLife]

Wait, is Self-Storage a permitted use there? If so, HUGE blunder by COJ's planning department. That will make it tougher for the opposition, but there are a few arguments to be made to deny the deviations. Based on a cursory review of the site plan and deviations, I can think of a good one. Is there a staff report yet?

[Kerry]

Wait, is Self-Storage a permitted use there? If so, HUGE blunder by COJ's planning department. That will make it tougher for the opposition, but there are a few arguments to be made to deny the deviations. Based on a cursory review of the site plan and deviations, I can think of a good one. Is there a staff report yet?

The City would be much better served eliminating any regulation of usage, and just regulate the physical structure.  The deviations such as reducing the setbacks, reduction in off-street parking requirements, the addition of on-street parking, and reserving space on the lot for future development along Edgewood are all good and should be encouraged everywhere.  To be honest, I'm not really understanding why this would even be opposed.

[DrQue]

TJs is not that far fetched. There are not many practical sites located on major roads that would also appeal to the Riverside/Murray Hill/Avondale/Ortega residents. This site has visibility to 17 as well as direct access to target neighborhoods via Edgewood Ave.

[vicupstate]

Wait, is Self-Storage a permitted use there? If so, HUGE blunder by COJ's planning department. That will make it tougher for the opposition, but there are a few arguments to be made to deny the deviations. Based on a cursory review of the site plan and deviations, I can think of a good one. Is there a staff report yet?

The City would be much better served eliminating any regulation of usage, and just regulate the physical structure.  The deviations such as reducing the setbacks, reduction in off-street parking requirements, the addition of on-street parking, and reserving space on the lot for future development along Edgewood are all good and should be encouraged everywhere.  To be honest, I'm not really understanding why this would even be opposed.

Long blank walls aren't condusive to walkability or urban design. My expectation is the 'future development' = 'more self storage'. They own the land and that is the business they are in.

[thelakelander]

Here's the developer's website.

Silverfield Development and its affiliates have invested in all spectrums of real estate including retail, office, self storage, land and multifamily properties.  We have a strong portfolio of existing properties and are always looking for new opportunities to purchase or joint venture.  Silverfield Development has access to capital and investment partners that allow us to consider deals of all sizes.

They also have local commercial and residential development experience: http://silverfieldgroup.com/

[Kerry]

Wait, is Self-Storage a permitted use there? If so, HUGE blunder by COJ's planning department. That will make it tougher for the opposition, but there are a few arguments to be made to deny the deviations. Based on a cursory review of the site plan and deviations, I can think of a good one. Is there a staff report yet?

The City would be much better served eliminating any regulation of usage, and just regulate the physical structure.  The deviations such as reducing the setbacks, reduction in off-street parking requirements, the addition of on-street parking, and reserving space on the lot for future development along Edgewood are all good and should be encouraged everywhere.  To be honest, I'm not really understanding why this would even be opposed.

Long blank walls aren't condusive to walkability or urban design. My expectation is the 'future development' = 'more self storage'. They own the land and that is the business they are in.

Long blank walls fall under the realm of regulating the physical structure.  Just because it is a storage facility doesn't mean it has to have long blank walls.  When they built the storage facility in Brooklyn they wanted to put the retail component against I-95.  I asked them to move it to the corner and they did.  That made a significant improvement.  Also, the long blank wall isn't along Edgewood, it is along Plymouth and fronts railroad tracks, an off ramp, and the elevated over-pass of US19.  And what is there now is essentially a large blank wall and poorly executed sidewalk.

As for what they have in mind for 'future development', who knows but at least they are keeping it open for now.  If the future is more storage then we can have that battle then.

[thelakelander]

^Depending on how one defines the site, Plymouth is more visible to 55,000 cars/trucks a day on Roosevelt than the 3,300 vehicles a day on Edgewood in that stretch. How the project addresses the street on both Edgewood and Plymouth (really Roosevelt) will be of equal importance.

[Kerry]

^Depending on how one defines the site, Plymouth is more visible to 55,000 cars/trucks a day on Roosevelt than the 3,300 vehicles a day on Edgewood in that stretch. How the project addresses the street on both Edgewood and Plymouth (really Roosevelt) will be of equal importance.

So what should be the primary function of the Murray Hill commercial district, provide services to the residents/businesses of Murray Hill neighborhood or the 55,000 cars a day passing by on Roosevelt?

I'm not arguing that a storage facility is the best use or what I would do if I owned it, but the choices are "oppose and try to stop it" and "make it the best damn storage facility in Jacksonville".  My experience has been you are much better off spending your time making it the best possible storage facility.  Leave NIMBYISM to the suburbanites.

[thelakelander]

So what should be the primary function of the Murray Hill commercial district, provide services to the residents/businesses of Murray Hill neighborhood or the 55,000 cars a day passing by on Roosevelt?

Actually.....both. Like Five Points, King Street, San Marco Square and 8th & Main, Edgewood's commercial district will fail if it only caters to residents that specifically live in Murray Hill. Businesses need all the visibility and foot traffic they can get.  Ask Dreamette if there's a difference in the cash they get from Murray Hill residents verses someone from Fairfax, Avondale or Lackawanna. I'm 100% sure, they'd like as much green as they can get.

Look, I'm not personally making a case for or against the project. I'm just stating that how you treat the frontage on Plymouth is just as important as Edgewood. You have an opportunity to wrap the corner and extend good infill and redevelopment along Plymouth between Edgewood and Post. For the urbanist you claim to be, you don't appear to be looking at the area holistically. Plymouth/Roosevelt Boulevard has the same zoning as Edgewood.  However, the traffic count and visibility for commercial is significantly higher.  It reminds me a lot of the intersection of Lake Park Avenue and E 53rd Street along Metra in Chicago's Hyde Park. E 53rd is the neighborhood's Edgewood Avenue but Lake Park Avenue and the paralleling Metra tracks have a much higher traffic count and more visibility to passing eyes. How that situation (Lake Park Avenue being home to infill requiring higher traffic counts and visibility) has been handled and whatever you're arguing for sound like complete opposites. Regardless of whether its a self storage center, hotel, grocery store or whorehouse, how it interacts with the pedestrian realm and helps/or hinders Murray Hill's sense of place matters.

I'm not arguing that a storage facility is the best use or what I would do if I owned it, but the choices are "oppose and try to stop it" and "make it the best damn storage facility in Jacksonville".  My experience has been you are much better off spending your time making it the best possible storage facility.  Leave NIMBYISM to the suburbanites.

Now you're being like Brian Hughes and Mayor Curry and limiting yourself from the start.....Why? Perhaps there's a third or fourth option out there where the property owner, developer and residents win. Perhaps its a mixed use project with a storage facility. Maybe it's something totally different. Let's bring an open mind and creativity to the table.

[Kerry]

I just don't see Plymouth being that big of deal.  It is a residential street and some would argue that a storage facility is a good buffer between single family homes and a commercial street.  Maybe if the overpass on 19 was removed you could make an argument but traffic is going by at +60mph.  You can't even see that corner from Roosevelt until you have already passed the exit.  Finally, you can't possibly think the frontage along Plymouth is as important as Edgewood.  Plymouth fronts a railroad track and an expressway.  There is nothing that could go in along Plymouth which caters to passer-bys that can't be found at Roosevelt Square 2 miles away (and they have parking for a thousand cars).

[thelakelander]

Like I said earlier, you aren't seeing things holistically. Plymouth is anything but a residential street. It has the same zoning classification as Edgewood and has been commercial in that stretch for at least 70 years. Just because you think it may not be much doesn't mean those in the Murray Hill should take the same position.

[Kerry]

Sorry, you lost me at zoning.  However, I do think I am looking at things holistically.  Your contention seems to be that Murray Hill should focus on attracting people from outside Murray Hill.  I think first and foremost, Murray Hill businesses should cater to the needs of local Murray Hill residents.  The nearest storage facilities are on Lane Ave and downtown.  Given the smaller home sizes and most of them either having a 1 car garage, or in most cases, no garage I got to suspect that most area residents are in favor of it (or don't care).

[thelakelander]

Sorry, you lost me at zoning.  However, I do think I am looking at things holistically.

You just contradicted yourself if I lost you at something basic like zoning and land use. You can think or plan holistically without seriously considering zoning, land use and commercial visibility and access opportunities.

Your contention seems to be that Murray Hill should focus on attracting people from outside Murray Hill.  I think first and foremost, Murray Hill businesses should cater to the needs of local Murray Hill residents.

That's not my contention. I'll leave how a business operates up to that business owner. Nevertheless, common sense says there's no Maple Street, Taco Bodega or Moon River keep their doors open if they only relied on the population base of only Murray Hill to support their operations. Anyway, my statement was, regardless of what goes on the property, it's just as important to get it right on Roosevelt/Plymouth as it is Edgewood Avenue. It's a prime corner and should be considered as having two front, high profile sides. In no way should Plymouth be treated as a throwaway street.

The nearest storage facilities are on Lane Ave and downtown.  Given the smaller home sizes and most of them either having a 1 car garage, or in most cases, no garage I got to suspect that most area residents are in favor of it (or don't care).

I'm not debating the merits of the use. I know that one man's trash is another man's treasure. Since people won't throw stuff away, the self-storage business is a booming $38 billion industry. Nevertheless, this does not mean you accept poor design at the pedestrian level on Plymouth.

[Live_Oak]

Sorry, you lost me at zoning.  However, I do think I am looking at things holistically.  Your contention seems to be that Murray Hill should focus on attracting people from outside Murray Hill.  I think first and foremost, Murray Hill businesses should cater to the needs of local Murray Hill residents.  The nearest storage facilities are on Lane Ave and downtown.  Given the smaller home sizes and most of them either having a 1 car garage, or in most cases, no garage I got to suspect that most area residents are in favor of it (or don't care).

There's a brand new storage facility on Edison by the I-95 and I-10 interchange. And another one at Myrtle and Forest. And an older one on Highway Ave near Edgewood.