Author Topic: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?  (Read 2091 times)

Tacachale

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What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« on: January 31, 2019, 09:09:59 AM »


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The Jacksonville Transportation Authority (JTA) has banked its future on autonomous and connected vehicles, even going as far as planning to replace the existing Skyway system with smaller, slower moving driverless vehicles. Are you excited or skeptical? Here's a chance for you to express how you feel about this, the future of transit and autonomous/connected vehicles in general.


Read more and take the survey: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/what-do-you-think-about-autonomousconnected-vehicles/
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Adam White

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2019, 09:21:26 AM »
The survey link didn't work for me earlier - will try again later.

In any event, the whole 'autonomous vehicle' thing seems really gimmicky and impractical to me. They don't hold very many people. travel relatively slowly and run in traffic (I think).

Honestly - a tram or some sort of light rail makes more sense. And barring that, I'd rather take a bus.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

thelakelander

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2019, 09:37:10 AM »
Any thoughts to how one would stick a bicycle on one of these things? Would they even be allowed?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

thelakelander

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2019, 10:01:55 AM »
Interesting read. In the transportation world myself, I also have a similar concern about leveraging mobility in the effort to build human-scaled communities. We don't talk as much about this opportunity locally as we should:

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Self-Driving Cars Could Be Bad for Walkable Cities

Advocates say self-driving cars will make other road users safer—but at what price?

....But as an urban planner and transportation scholar who, like most people in my field, has paid close attention to the discussion around driverless cars, I have come to understand that autonomous vehicles will not complement modern urban planning goals of building people-centered communities. In fact, I think they’re mutually exclusive: We can have a world of safe, efficient, driverless cars, or we can have a world where people can walk, bike and take transit in high-quality, human-scaled communities.

Full article: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/10/self-driving-cars-vs-walkable-cities/572149/
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Tacachale

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2019, 10:12:15 AM »
Any thoughts to how one would stick a bicycle on one of these things? Would they even be allowed?

My wife had the same thought. They are too small to bring bikes into.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Charles Hunter

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2019, 10:16:33 AM »
Interesting survey.  Some vagueness in some of the questions about future use of AV/CVs - some provided a specific time-frame, and those following did not.  Wasn't sure if I should apply the time-frame (5 years) to the questions without it or not; I decided not to, to let them apply to a longer future.  Also, a bit unhappy about the bad grammar and spelling in the introductory section.

thelakelander

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2019, 10:44:04 AM »
It came across as vague to me. It didn't provide enough background information of the challenges or issues currently related to the use of AV/CVs nationally or locally for the average person not following this stuff on a regular basis. I'm not even sure it's hitting the right end user demographics. It would be interesting to see the final demographic make-up of survey users vs the demographic make-up of existing transit users and the overall city in general. Thus, from a technical or potential rider's perspective, I won't put too much weight in the results.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

FlaBoy

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2019, 11:58:36 AM »
Autonomous vehicles are coming one way or another.

As for Jacksonville's plan, I think unless they make an exclusive ROW, it will fail miserably.

thelakelander

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2019, 12:23:46 PM »
Yes, there's really no need for an autonomous vehicle survey locally. The private sector and public policy will eventually address emerging technologies and their integration into everyday society. Locally, we need more emphasis on making sure we're implementing project specifically designed to facilitate the implementation of the community's vision for what it wants to be:

http://www.coj.net/departments/planning-and-development/community-planning-division/plans-and-studies/vision-plans

Emerging technologies will certainly be a part of the future, but getting land use policy correct and investing in a transportation network that supports that policy in the most effective and efficient manner should be of utmost importance. To be an influential component of changing the built environment of certain corridors, the need and benefits of exclusive ROW or dedicated lanes should be even be a debate.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

CG7

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2019, 01:08:33 PM »
I was hoping for a question on exclusive ROW versus sharing the road with other vehicles. That is the biggest issue with the JTA plan, at least to me. I think it could be useful, but only if it has its own lanes.

thelakelander

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2019, 02:10:25 PM »
Yea, I think a lot of people, especially those that have used transit in urbanized settings or would like to see TOD outside of DT, feel that way. Hopefully, things will eventually go that way. Other than that, there is a huge social equity issue/opportunity. More penetration is needed into neighborhoods where reliable transit related investment could help spur long-time needed equitable access and economic opportunity for residents.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 02:12:38 PM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

tufsu1

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2019, 04:10:29 PM »
I think they are absolutely the greatest invention in the history of transportation...even bigger than the wheel!

Sonic101

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2019, 04:10:55 PM »
JTA is signing Jax up to be a beta tester of unproven technology of unknown reliability and robustness especially in comparison to the system it will replace.

Autonomous tech still has a lot to prove and it's not

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/12/waymos-lame-public-driverless-launch-not-driverless-and-barely-public/

 happening

https://jalopnik.com/2018-was-a-hard-reality-check-for-autonomous-cars-1831182272

 anytime

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/3/17530232/self-driving-ai-winter-full-autonomy-waymo-tesla-uber

 soon.

https://jalopnik.com/get-real-about-self-driving-cars-1823921109

Tacachale

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2019, 04:26:27 PM »
Even beyond all the obvious faults that JTA doesn't want to address - the lack of dedicated lanes, the lack of reaching into transit-dependent riders live, the capacity, speed, terrible name, etc., there's a real issue of simple time management. AVs - let alone an entire system based on them - are an unknown period of time away from the present. However, the current Skyway trains won't last forever. In addition to the fact that the technology simply isn't here yet, there are legal hurdles to getting the pods on the streets, planning that needs to be done, etc. There's a real possibility - or probability - that the Skyway will crap out years before JTA's AV dreams are realized. What will JTA say then? And what if the various problems mean the system never comes together?
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

thelakelander

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Re: What do you think about Autonomous/Connected Vehicles?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2019, 05:25:40 PM »
They could probably replace the Skyway vehicles with AVs on the existing elevated superstructure without immediately having to expand at-grade. While this won't answer the reliability concerns with technology, it avoids having to immediately deal with the coordination and additional challenges that will come with gaining approval to run on regular streets with mixed traffic. The problem is capacity. As of now, what's available out there isn't close to what the Skyway's capacity is. Assuming the Skyway was extended to TIAA Bank Field, it's already highly questionable if it could handle event crowds over there. So everything still boils back to making sure we get it right with the basic traditional planning principles.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2019, 05:34:53 PM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali