Author Topic: Curry wants to move the jail  (Read 2240 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 08:04:02 AM »
That's a bad reason to spend $400 million. The police station is mid century modern. It would be a pretty cool building if renovated back to its original design. I'll see if I can find a few pics.
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Adam White

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2018, 08:54:53 AM »
The problem with the jail (and police station) is that it is ugly.  The butalist architecture that so many cities use is the problem.  There are lots of beautiful prisons, jails, and police stations.

This is the new police station and jail in downtown  Edmond, OK.  No one would have a problem living next door to this.



I think that police station is ugly, sorry.

I do like a lot of brutalist architecture and have no issues with the police station. I actually quite like it. The jail isn't great.
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thelakelander

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2018, 08:57:54 AM »
Some pictures of the JSO building when it was initially completed. It was designed with a rooftop park and garden:





There's a similar building in Oakland, CA that's been allowed to mature as originally designed:



The Oakland building is a museum.
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Kerry

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2018, 09:01:34 AM »
The jail doesn't have to be torn down.  They could just reclad it, or even outline it white lights, and it would greatly improve it.  The Embarcadero Center in San Francisco looks like a jail during the day, but at night is pretty cool.

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Kerry

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2018, 09:07:53 AM »
There's a similar building in Oakland, CA that's been allowed to mature as originally designed:



The Oakland building is a museum.

That looks great - from a helicopter.  The sidewalk view is a total disaster.  Jeff Speck just got a cold shudder and doesn't know why.  Go to Google Earth street-view and check it out.
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Kerry

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2018, 09:11:44 AM »
This is probably a good time to repost this for those who haven't seen it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ZeXnmDZMQ&t=504s
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remc86007

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2018, 09:13:58 AM »
I think the jail is ugly, but I've never heard that mentioned as the reason people don't want to be around it. People are afraid of jails because of the people going in and out of them regardless of how logical that sentiment is. The police station is a building worth saving, but I think we'll need to find a new use for it. A museum maybe? There are a lot of efficiencies created within JSO by having the jail adjacent to the police headquarters.

I am a little concerned that Curry thinks this is something worth spending money on now. The jail is almost entirely constructed internally of cement block...it isn't the type of building that is going to start falling apart and need serious maintenance costs. Think of the amount of new residential we could incentivize to be built downtown for $400mil. Even if we only pulled in an additional 4,000 residents (at an absurd cost of $100k per resident), I think that would be enough to start organic growth downtown.

thelakelander

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2018, 09:29:01 AM »
There's a similar building in Oakland, CA that's been allowed to mature as originally designed:



The Oakland building is a museum.

That looks great - from a helicopter.  The sidewalk view is a total disaster.  Jeff Speck just got a cold shudder and doesn't know why.  Go to Google Earth street-view and check it out.

It's not the best but given the context of that site and use of the building it's not the worst.

As for Jeff Speck.....I  personally witnessed that guy get roasted at a Next City Vanguard presentation in Montreal. When it came to thinking about cities and urban issues outside the perspective of an older white man....he came across as "antiquated" to say the least.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Kerry

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2018, 09:30:01 AM »
I think the jail is ugly, but I've never heard that mentioned as the reason people don't want to be around it. People are afraid of jails because of the people going in and out of them regardless of how logical that sentiment is. The police station is a building worth saving, but I think we'll need to find a new use for it. A museum maybe? There are a lot of efficiencies created within JSO by having the jail adjacent to the police headquarters.

I am a little concerned that Curry thinks this is something worth spending money on now. The jail is almost entirely constructed internally of cement block...it isn't the type of building that is going to start falling apart and need serious maintenance costs. Think of the amount of new residential we could incentivize to be built downtown for $400mil. Even if we only pulled in an additional 4,000 residents (at an absurd cost of $100k per resident), I think that would be enough to start organic growth downtown.

For me - everything east of Liberty St is a lost cause anyway.  With LaVilla, Brooklyn, the Southbank, and the CBD all available for in-fill and redevelopment, the area east of Liberty is way down the list of desirable human habitation. Let's get real, there is only 1 reason there is any interest east of Liberty - the Jags.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 09:34:36 AM by Kerry »
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thelakelander

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2018, 09:40:42 AM »
^I agree that in terms of what the market is, what's actually taking place right now, where the density to build up is, etc., east of Liberty probably should not be the major revitalization priority. Of course, there should be a long term plan in place and assistance for those seeking to energize that area, but it shouldn't come at the expense of what's naturally taking place.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Tacachale

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #25 on: December 06, 2018, 09:49:24 AM »
Some pictures of the JSO building when it was initially completed. It was designed with a rooftop park and garden:





There's a similar building in Oakland, CA that's been allowed to mature as originally designed:



The Oakland building is a museum.

I was talking to my dad the other day about the police building. Apparently the reason the plants were removed is that they were causing extensive leaks inside the building.

Locationwise, it made a lot more sense back when it was built and there were working shipyards across the street. It was an industrial area then with a huge rat problem because of the docks. Today it's seen as a bad location, but back then no one but the government wanted to develop the land.

IMO, if we're talking about long-term strategy rather than an imminent move, that's a good thing. The jail and police buildings will be obsolete one day and we need to have a plan to replace them. There are likely to be better options than the waterfront. But spending $400 now to raze a functional building when we have other needs is not a wise idea.
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thelakelander

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #26 on: December 06, 2018, 11:06:45 AM »
More info on the jail:

Quote
Recent comments from one of Mayor Lenny Curry’s top lieutenants has reignited the longstanding dream of city leaders that the hulking Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office headquarters and jail on downtown’s waterfront could one day be relocated.

Here’s the reality: It’s not happening anytime soon.

City Hall’s budget as currently constituted simply can’t pay for a project that could cost nearly $400 million — at least not without a massive change in the city’s priorities, a sudden windfall of new money or mountains of new debt.

In response to a question from a Jacksonville Business Journal reporter at a panel on downtown development, Brian Hughes, Curry’s chief of staff, said, “There’s no reason to have a centrally located downtown jail in the modern era.”

“It would be a shock to me if four or five years from now there’s not either a very advanced plan or even execution of a plan to relocate the jail outside of the core.”

There is evidence Curry views moving the jail as a long-term goal, but the city has no money to do it — at least for the foreseeable future.

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20181206/no-duval-county-jail-is-not-moving-out-of-downtown
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Kerry

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #27 on: December 06, 2018, 11:18:12 AM »
When does all the cash start rolling in from the corporate welfare handouts?  We can use the giant videoboard and swimming pool profits to fund part of it.
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marcuscnelson

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2018, 12:37:46 AM »
When does all the cash start rolling in from the corporate welfare handouts?  We can use the giant videoboard and swimming pool profits to fund part of it.

Oh, don't be silly, that money's for the Jaguars!

We'll just sell JEA to pay for this. Clearly moving the jail is the key to downtown revitalization! Our great Leader Curry will not REST until everything east of the Hyatt is either grass or owned by Shad Khan.

Kerry

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Re: Curry wants to move the jail
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2018, 09:38:12 AM »
If the City just put 1/10 the effort into LaVilla and Brooklyn that they do into East of Liberty we could have some serious urban fabric by now
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