Author Topic: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?  (Read 1612 times)

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30592
    • Modern Cities
JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« on: November 19, 2018, 11:38:13 AM »


Quote
The Jacksonville Transportation Authority (JTA) has plans to change the way transit is viewed in the urban core. Here's a video illustrating their vision for modifying the Skyway into an expanded Autonomous transit circulator. Are you buying what the JTA is selling? Let us know why or why not!

Full article: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/jtas-u2c-good-bad-or-dont-care/
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Steve

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3278
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2018, 01:20:46 PM »
I think if they drop the additional river crossing it would seem more believable. Not that the location is bad for a crossing, but for a sixth bridge across the river (one that due to geography would either need to be a drawbridge or have some serious height), that's a MUCH larger conversation.

CG7

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 229
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2018, 01:24:34 PM »
I see three positives in the video. The video seems to show the cars using dedicated lanes once they get to ground level which is much better than mixing in with the regular traffic. The system seems to be able to add cars as needed, which also might mean the system can operate for longer hours by using less cars. It seems to be fairly easy to expand, and as long as they keep dedicated lanes, should make it easier to get to the most desirable ares around downtown.

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30592
    • Modern Cities
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2018, 01:26:07 PM »
^The video shows cars mixing in with traffic in front of the Landing.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Tacachale

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7783
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2018, 01:41:02 PM »
For perspective, here are two of our previous articles on the "U2C" project:

Quote
It's Time for Some Real Talk on JTA's Skyway Plans

Local transit advocates were thrilled when the Jacksonville Transportation Authority (JTA) embarked on a mission to finally upgrade Downtown's long-suffering Skyway. But anticipation for what is being called the Ultimate Urban Circulator, or 'U2C', is quickly melting as questions arise about its ability to adequately serve Urban Core neighborhoods. Is Jacksonville setting itself up for another big transit disappointment?

https://www.moderncities.com/article/2018-mar-its-time-for-some-real-talk-on-jtas-skyway-plans

Quote
Skyway Expansion: Forgotten Urban Core Neighborhoods

The Jacksonville Transportation Authority's (JTA's) plan to replace the Skyway with a system featuring autonomous vehicles called the 'Ultimate Urban Circulator' (U2C) would expand the system into some coveted areas near Downtown. More controversially, it also calls for a new, multi-million dollar bridge over the St. Johns. But by focusing primarily on trendy neighborhoods, JTA misses a golden opportunity to serve (and spark revitalization in) the dense black neighborhoods surrounding Downtown where residents already rely on transit.

https://www.moderncities.com/article/2018-apr-skyway-expansion-forgotten-urban-core-neighborhoods
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

jcjohnpaint

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1313
  • Jason John- www.jasonjohnart.com
    • Jason John Website
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2018, 02:36:26 PM »
Seems like Uber on crack. 

KenFSU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3946
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2018, 06:18:43 PM »
Hard pass.

We shouldn't be planning our transit future for the next 30 years around something that the private sector is going to do better and cheaper than us in the next 5-10 years.

We should be focusing on fixed transit, in dedicated lanes, removed from mixed traffic. That's our competitive advantage.

Some additional info from the JBJ today.

Give them your click/read here:

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/11/19/new-details-revealed-on-downtown-innovation.html

Quote
New details revealed on downtown innovation corridor

City agencies are refining their vision to transform Bay Street into an "innovation corridor." Members of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority, the North Florida Transportation Planning Organization and consulting companies laid out their plans for the corridor at a Jax Tech gathering Nov. 16.

The plan for the 3.2-mile corridor was first revealed in an application for a $25 million federal grant in August. The application evinced 15 driverless shuttles carrying 2,500 daily passengers from the Skyway's elevated track down an off-ramp to Bay Street – a transit system made possible by an integrated data exchangecollecting and providing troves of real-time data from a vast array of sensors. The almost $63 million plan was put forward by the City, JEA, JTA, TPO and Jax Chamber.

But new details emerged in the gathering of tech professionals Friday, including the corridor's rebranded name: Bay Jax Innovation Corridor.

In another revelation, Jeff Sheffield, executive director of the TPO, spoke of the opportunity for solar panel-lined sidewalks and roads. However, he primarily reiterated his organization's role in connecting sensors and services through the integrated data exchange.

"The data exchange is the heart and soul of what we think will make our region smart," said Sheffield, referring to the organization's Smart Region plan.

Sheffield lauded the exchange as something the private sector would support through paid subscriptions and app development, noting that the exchange and JTA's autonomous ambitionshave already attracted significant interest.

"The Silicon Valley are lighting up our phones with systems they want to deploy," said Sheffield.

Justin Dennis, co-founder of Jacksonville-based TPO partner Urban SDK, added specifics to this planned mixing of public and private services. Dennis is working with the TPO to create an exchange that can provide real-time data from sensors all over Northeast Florida for mapping, statistical analysis, research, entrepreneurship and innovation, he said.

To help attract companies and showcase the exchange's capabilities, the TPO is putting on a "code bash" in 2019, according to Dennis.

Planners see the Bay Street corridor as a proof of concept not only for the data exchange, but also JTA's ambitions to make the 2.5-mile Skyway elevated infrastructure the anchor of a 10-mile autonomous shuttle network through downtown and surrounding areas, what JTA has dubbed the Ultimate Urban Circulator (U2C).

JTA expects the transit system to comprise 100 driverless vehicles, U2C Program Administrator Matt Chang revealed at the meeting. Shuttles would arrive every two to three minutes at permanent stations, but JTA plans to add on-demand options. The system plans incorporate the Skyway's elevated structure, AV-only lanes and mixed traffic.

Adding another new detail, Chang noted that the Bay Street corridor would make a diversion onto Independent Drive behind the Landing in order to showcase AVs that can handle a roundabout. The corridor stretches from JTA's new headquarters and multimodal hub, the Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center at LaVilla, to TIAA Bank Field, a point of emphasis for Chang.

"If we can’t get ourselves to the stadium, we shouldn’t be doing this," said Chang, noting that plans for the corridor didn't initially go that far.

The corridor could be finished within two years of getting federal funding, by JTA estimates, and JTA intends to reach milestones every six months, according to Chang. The organizations should learn this month if Jacksonville won the federal grant.

itsfantastic1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 124
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2018, 07:36:44 PM »
Is the only good news here that if Jacksonville isn't awarded federal money; the U2C (in it's current form) probably won't be an option anytime soon?

Sonic101

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 130
  • It's Coming
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2018, 07:58:41 PM »
That's a lot of vehicles, can't imagine maintenance costs being lower.

I already mentioned how much I loathe this system and the idea that autonomous cars are right around the corner or they'll be some replacement for mass transit.

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30592
    • Modern Cities
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2018, 09:02:03 PM »
Quote
Adding another new detail, Chang noted that the Bay Street corridor would make a diversion onto Independent Drive behind the Landing in order to showcase AVs that can handle a roundabout. The corridor stretches from JTA's new headquarters and multimodal hub, the Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center at LaVilla, to TIAA Bank Field, a point of emphasis for Chang.

This isn't a new detail. The 2017 video shows AVs operating in mixed traffic around the roundabout. Still have not heard or read anything about how this system will encourage TOD and where they predict that TOD will take place.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Charles Hunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2884
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2018, 11:41:21 PM »
Quote
Adding another new detail, Chang noted that the Bay Street corridor would make a diversion onto Independent Drive behind the Landing in order to showcase AVs that can handle a roundabout. The corridor stretches from JTA's new headquarters and multimodal hub, the Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center at LaVilla, to TIAA Bank Field, a point of emphasis for Chang.

This isn't a new detail. The 2017 video shows AVs operating in mixed traffic around the roundabout. Still have not heard or read anything about how this system will encourage TOD and where they predict that TOD will take place.

They will claim Kahn's developments, which will happen anyway, are "TOD".

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30592
    • Modern Cities
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2018, 12:12:55 AM »
They can't claim development that was already being subsidized. It's clear they've attempted to connect downtown sites that were already planned. However, there's been little discussion on how this system can influence the built environment itself. The best thing about trendsetting projects in other cities has been their ability to change the built environment around them. Not just in downtown but in areas like Durkeeville, Eastside, Cathedral District, etc. Unfortunately, most of the promotion has been centered around selling the technology, which is still unproven for what's proposed.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Transman

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2018, 08:47:22 AM »
It seems it would be best if it was changed to pedestrian and bike paths.  I agree autonomous vehicles are a ways off.  Until they can get them to work on the interstates first, city driving will take even longer.  The interstate highways are limited access, easier for cars, fewer roadway features.

I think with electric bikes and scooters using the skyway as a path is the way to go.  People in the downtown core to go to work and shop using the ebikes and not have to worry about parking.  That way less parking is needed and more density.  Ebikes can easily go over the bridges and with speeds of around 20 mph be used any time of year.   I linked to below.

https://electrek.co/2018/09/25/blix-aveny-electric-bicycle-review/

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30592
    • Modern Cities
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2018, 09:08:33 AM »
Given our climate, wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and make more sense to use the area under the Skyway for pedestrians and cyclists....sort of like Miami is doing with the Under Line?





Going this route, you enhance transit, bicycle and pedestrian connectivity as opposed to putting them at odds against each other.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Captain Zissou

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3864
Re: JTA's U2C: Good, Bad or Don't Care?
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2018, 09:16:53 AM »
It seems it would be best if it was changed to pedestrian and bike paths....

I think with electric bikes and scooters using the skyway as a path is the way to go.  People in the downtown core to go to work and shop using the ebikes and not have to worry about parking.  That way less parking is needed and more density.  Ebikes can easily go over the bridges and with speeds of around 20 mph be used any time of year.   I linked to below.

https://electrek.co/2018/09/25/blix-aveny-electric-bicycle-review/

False.

People won't use this, we already have the riverwalk, we have an overabundance of public space downtown that doesn't get maintained, etc...