Author Topic: Convention Center Wars  (Read 20545 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #90 on: August 18, 2018, 08:37:52 PM »
In my view, in the case of this site, adaptive reuse should considered over demolition in order to make room for less pedestrian friendly redevelopment.

I have a downtown office in the old Atlantic National Bank Building. I looked long and hard at 11 East and the Carling when I moved to town. Back then, they were the only residential units available. I also looked at 220 Riverside. In all cases I felt they were overpriced for an urban environment that would have required me to do a reverse commute to access things I wanted in a walkable setting.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2018, 08:46:21 PM by thelakelander »
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RattlerGator

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #91 on: August 20, 2018, 12:43:35 PM »
Jax is no Manhattan or even Miami but in this particular location (which is a mega block from the river channel) there's no need to de-densify the little density we do have.

Good grief. Somehow I knew this thread would not disappoint and it certainly hasn't. Thank you, jaxnyc79, for this:

"In my view, the imperative isn't so much density with verticality, but a clustering and diversity of buildings with a range of uses all of which directly open up to the sidewalk to maximize pedestrian access and pedestrian engagement at as many points as possible."

To hell with density, density, density. I remember y'all bitching and moaning about the Gate Gas Station in Brooklyn; that freaking space is always busy, provides a great service, and is obviously valued by a wide range of people downtown.

I'll tell you something else; to hell with this strong desire to dictate, dictate, dictate. Just get the hell out of the way. And, while you're at it, hire a damn third party with expertise in property management to handle city-owned properties in the core.

thelakelander

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2018, 02:59:20 PM »
Quote
To hell with density, density, density. I remember y'all bitching and moaning about the Gate Gas Station in Brooklyn; that freaking space is always busy, provides a great service, and is obviously valued by a wide range of people downtown.

Hopefully, downtown advocates aren't really saying to hell with density. If so, let's stop subsidizing it and let autocentric policies take a hold of the area like they have throughout the rest of the city.

For the record, I don't think anyone said Gate would not do good business. If I recall, the complaints were focused on them coming to the table with a more pedestrian friendly site design. With that said, there aren't many people walking around that area now, so the point of it not being pedestrian friendly or contributing to a future walkable district has been proven.
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fieldafm

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #93 on: August 20, 2018, 03:09:22 PM »
Jax is no Manhattan or even Miami but in this particular location (which is a mega block from the river channel) there's no need to de-densify the little density we do have.

Good grief. Somehow I knew this thread would not disappoint and it certainly hasn't. Thank you, jaxnyc79, for this:

"In my view, the imperative isn't so much density with verticality, but a clustering and diversity of buildings with a range of uses all of which directly open up to the sidewalk to maximize pedestrian access and pedestrian engagement at as many points as possible."

To hell with density, density, density. I remember y'all bitching and moaning about the Gate Gas Station in Brooklyn; that freaking space is always busy, provides a great service, and is obviously valued by a wide range of people downtown.

I'll tell you something else; to hell with this strong desire to dictate, dictate, dictate. Just get the hell out of the way. And, while you're at it, hire a damn third party with expertise in property management to handle city-owned properties in the core.

You forgot "Make America Great Again"

KenFSU

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #94 on: September 05, 2018, 10:47:32 AM »
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/09/05/convention-center-proposals-vary-widely-on.html

Sorry, it's probably behind a paywall and I'm on mobile, but the JBJ has released details of the three other convention center bids.

Preston Hollow is probably a better deal for the city, while Jacobs would work in tandem with the Hyatt.

Rimrock seems like they'll probably be cut quickly, if they haven't been already for revising their proposal and calling the Shipyards a better location.

My kneejerk reaction is that both the Preston Hollow and Jacobs bids are SIGNIFICANTLY better than what the Jags are proposing.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 10:49:03 AM by KenFSU »

thelakelander

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #95 on: September 05, 2018, 11:22:15 AM »
I wonder how the city will wiggle out of this. Two of the proposals seem like they have viable teams, although I can't imagine the COJ giving $229 million in incentives to Preston Hollow.

On the surface, Jacobs sounds the most feasible from a market and development perspective but the devil is in the details to what the city would have to pay back over time. Like what exactly is involved in what the city would be on the hook for paying back? Just the convention center and it's support facilities or the additional commercial and residential development, Skyway extension, etc?

It will be interesting to see the concept plans for each, to be able to compare with what Khan has proposed at the Shipyards. Will Iguana release how much public money they want, so a true comparison can take place?
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Tacachale

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #96 on: September 05, 2018, 11:38:19 AM »

It will be interesting to see the concept plans for each, to be able to compare with what Khan has proposed at the Shipyards. Will Iguana release how much public money they want, so a true comparison can take place?

I think we know the answer to that.
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thelakelander

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2018, 12:06:10 PM »
Rimrock


Jacobs

« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 12:08:24 PM by thelakelander »
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Steve

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #98 on: September 05, 2018, 12:15:21 PM »
Looking at the Rimrock one....they plan on filling in the river where they are removing the old Courthouse Parking lot? huh.

downtownbrown

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #99 on: September 05, 2018, 03:13:42 PM »
good catch.  Looks like about half way, which will get them to deep enough water for bigger boats. 

Steve

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #100 on: September 05, 2018, 03:26:16 PM »
good catch.  Looks like about half way, which will get them to deep enough water for bigger boats. 

Looks like all the way - it's forward of the riverfront face of the Hyatt, which is only separated from the river by the dropoff, Coastline Drive, and the Riverwalk. Construction crews are literally tearing out that site which is currently a parking lot (which was really a bridge over the river) right now.

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #101 on: September 05, 2018, 03:29:09 PM »
I like the Jacobs rendering better, but either would be ok. A little "verticality" as someone said...25 stories plus?
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downtownbrown

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #102 on: September 05, 2018, 03:36:55 PM »
^^yeah, could be a total fill in.  That is a game changer since it at least doubles the footprint, reroutes the state approved roadways, and basically is a complete do-over for the city planners. 

icarus

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #103 on: September 05, 2018, 03:46:43 PM »
Preston Hollow's ask on the incentives is way out of the ballpark.  Rimrock's design looks great but is a non-starter from an environmental and permitting perspective ( the likelihood of filling in that section of St. John's River is nil).  Jacobs proposal is interesting but if the all the convention space is elevated ... the logistics alone would kill a lot of potential conventions.  Maybe, its just me but I feel all three proposals missed the mark significantly.

If Berkman II is being converted to hotel space, having the convention center near the stadium and the potential for additional exhibition space at amphitheater and stadium makes more sense.  Plus, the backers for Khan proposal bring a lot of experience and deeper pockets to the table.

Steve

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #104 on: September 05, 2018, 03:54:06 PM »
Jacobs proposal is interesting but if the all the convention space is elevated ... the logistics alone would kill a lot of potential conventions.

Construction costs aside, it depends on the exact layouts. Many convention centers are multi-story, though most have dock doors at the level of the main exhibit hall.