Author Topic: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan  (Read 2846 times)

thelakelander

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A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« on: July 25, 2018, 08:11:29 AM »


The mission of Groundwork Jacksonville is to build and connect Jacksonville’s Emerald Necklace. When complete the Emerald Necklace could encompass as much as 19-miles of new trails, greenspace, parks and waterways encircling the urban core and linking at least 14 neighborhoods and downtown to Hogans Creek, McCoys Creek, the S-Line Rail Trail and the Northbank and Southbank riverwalks.

 

Full plan concepts and renderings: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/a-look-at-the-emerald-necklace-trails-master-plan/
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Captain Zissou

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2018, 09:18:07 AM »
This is amazing.  The McCoys Creek and Hogans creek portions look very doable and connecting those to the riverwalk and S-Line would be so great for the surrounding neighborhoods.

itsfantastic1

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2018, 11:19:50 AM »
If all options get built, or even just the connecting loops to make a full path, I worry if the city will take it seriously to maintain all these beautiful paths. That will be the biggest key for its long term success

Josh

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2018, 11:51:46 AM »
If all options get built, or even just the connecting loops to make a full path, I worry if the city will take it seriously to maintain all these beautiful paths. That will be the biggest key for its long term success

You already know the answer to this.

marcuscnelson

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2018, 12:30:36 PM »
This is absolutely amazing. But like itsfantastic1 said, it should be a major concern whether the city will maintain this expansive park space. But if they can, they have to do it. This is the walkability downtown needs.

Tacachale

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2018, 12:50:27 PM »
The good thing about the plan is that it tries to work in various urban neighborhoods that are often left out of planning discussions. But feasibility a major concern. Expect to see major changes between this plan and the final product. Currently the plan involves purchasing a lot of private property and converting public alleys into bike paths, and that's just not likely to happen.

Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

KenFSU

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2018, 12:57:40 PM »
^The Trust for Public Land just released their new 2018 Park Scores, which score each American city for their park systems, based on roughly a dozen different criteria.

Was curious to see how each city ranked versus how much each city actually spends per resident on parkland.

Ran the numbers and, no huge surprise, there's a statistically significant correlation between cities with great park systems and cities who prioritize funding for parks.

Probably too small to read, but Jacksonville in orange, near the bottom.



It's easy to blame the city for failure to maintain our parks, but the real problem probably lies more with the funding mechanism than a lack of care by the city. On the public side, the only way we're going to increase maintenance on a per-park basis is to constrain supply (close parks, and stop building new ones), or increase funding (raise taxes, or reallocate budget from elsewhere).

Would KILL to see 19 miles of new greenspace in the urban core and surrounding neighborhoods, but like others above have mentioned, I'd hope that beyond just the initial capital spend to build this thing, someone has a plan for how we're going to pay to maintain it without diverting even more money from all of our other already underfunded parks.

Ditto the Landing park.

Ditto the District park.

Ditto the Shipyards park.

These things will all exist beyond the ribbon cutting.

That said, LOVE the plan.

Very ambitious.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2018, 12:59:12 PM by KenFSU »

Kiva

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2018, 06:52:01 AM »
If all options get built, or even just the connecting loops to make a full path, I worry if the city will take it seriously to maintain all these beautiful paths. That will be the biggest key for its long term success
The plan calls for the trail to be concrete, not asphalt, to reduce maintenance. The diagram at the top of this thread shows one proposed section. In many areas they are taking an existing road lane, or alley, and converting it to the trail. In the alleys cars would still have access, but each block would have a barrier to stop cars using the alley as a cut through. There is often minimal landscaping to be maintained. I live next to one of the alleys that is proposed for the trail and I know that we and our neighbors would be happy to help with maintenance, as we do already! At the recent public hearing they said they do have plans for the maintenance of the trail.

urbanlibertarian

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2018, 11:05:49 AM »
A good model for the maintenance of this and other parks might be the Florida Theatre where the land and structures are owned by the city but maintained by a non profit using donations and revenue from fees and concessions.  Just a thought.
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MusicMan

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2018, 11:42:00 AM »
Is there a budget for what this would cost to get up and running?

Rename it "The Wayne and Dolores Weaver Emerald Necklace Trails Public Walkway" and maybe the 'green' part will magically appear.

thelakelander

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2018, 12:44:52 PM »
If someone tossed a number out there right now, I'd tell you they're making a random guess that should be taken with a grain of salt. What's shown is pretty conceptual. No engineering and design has been done to the point where anyone would know potential right-of-way acquisition needs, drainage, utility, easement, historical impacts, etc.  With that said, the mayor is looking to spend +$60 million on the restoration of McCoys Creek and the construction of a greenway along it. Throw in Hogan Creeks and all the alignments shown in the concept and you're likely way over $100 million. However, once more analysis and community outreach is conducted, there may be collaboration and funding opportunities out there that have not surfaced yet.
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Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2018, 06:16:24 PM »
I had a meeting with Parks the other morning and afterwards we were chatting about 'things' - this project being one of them.

The couple of guys and lady were THRILLED about this project.  [I hope the sarcasm reads through]

Most of that department is very aware of the perception that they 'can't maintain anything' and wonder how all of this money comes about to add more responsibility without adding more people to handle said responsibility.
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Kiva

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2018, 08:42:35 PM »
If someone tossed a number out there right now, I'd tell you they're making a random guess that should be taken with a grain of salt. What's shown is pretty conceptual. No engineering and design has been done to the point where anyone would know potential right-of-way acquisition needs, drainage, utility, easement, historical impacts, etc.  With that said, the mayor is looking to spend +$60 million on the restoration of McCoys Creek and the construction of a greenway along it. Throw in Hogan Creeks and all the alignments shown in the concept and you're likely way over $100 million. However, once more analysis and community outreach is conducted, there may be collaboration and funding opportunities out there that have not surfaced yet.
At the public meeting this month they had estimates on short (roughly 1 mile) sections that they were hoping to start first, and they were roughly $2 million per mile. I think the total for the entire system was just under $50 million. This was based on similar trails that they have recently completed.

thelakelander

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2018, 09:52:41 PM »
Yea, sitting on the steering committee, I consider those estimates to be pie in the sky and I wish they would have not been mentioned to the public. No analysis has been done on actual ROW acquisition, areas of drainage concern, utility impacts, cross slopes, etc. have been studied. Heck, it's even too early to assume that concrete is the most appropriate paving material for the entire thing. As I mentioned before, what was shown was very conceptual in nature. Once real analysis begins many of those routes will either disappear or materialize in other forms and alignments.

Quote
This was based on similar trails that they have recently completed.

What are the similar trails? Many of the trails (like the Beltline) shown in the presentation aren't totally applicable. In the Beltline's case, it's basically a rails to trails project in Atlanta, hundreds of miles from the Atlantic coast. ROW acquisition, soil conditions, flooding impact, raising existing bridges, the need to restore McCoys and Hogans Creek, etc. would blow that $50 million number right out the water.  I believe over $60 million is being proposed by the Mayor's Office on the McCoys Creek segment alone over the next few years.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2018, 10:03:09 PM by thelakelander »
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bl8jaxnative

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Re: A Look at the Emerald Necklace Trails Master Plan
« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2018, 02:05:52 PM »
If we shut down the Skyway today, we'd free up $10M in local funds to put into this project.  Throw in state and federal matching funds and we could have this done in a handful of years.