Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa

[thelakelander]

If you're paying Brightline fares, Uber is certainly an option, regardless of what city you're in. What happens with Amtrak is also something that comes into play with Jax. Jax remains the rail gateway into and from Florida. That infrastructure isn't going anywhere any time soon. It's the only major city in the state where this intercity system could be fed intercity rail riders from outside of Florida. Although we tend to jump on JTA from time to time, they're even investing in a multimodal transit hub next to where a potential station would be. So locally, you will have the option to hop on the JTA Flyer or Skyway to access various destinations in the city.

[Tacachale]

Daytona and St Augustine would definitely be two good stops that would bring visitors from the South but I don't see Jax being a destination.  No one from points south are coming here for theme parks, beaches, shopping, or museums and I doubt anyone from Daytona is going to take a train to Jax only to have to Uber it all over once they are here.  I'm not sure what kind of business travel Jax would generate unless we got a lot more companies from JTB/Baymeadows/Avenues to relocate downtown.

Why would someone not uber? Plus, I’d take it from Jacksonville to Lakeland if it were an option (not sure if a Lakeland stop is planned) versus fighting I-4 through Orlando or going 25 miles around Orlando on 417.

The reverse is true-while I wish we had more people downtown, people would uber from downtown. How fundamentally different is it than an Uber from JIA? Plus, we have about 40k people working between the northbank, southbank, and Brooklyn.

Though, I’m not sure you “want” to get it. It’s much easier to be negative I guess.

People fly into Jax every day who then take Uber, a cab, or a rental car, and the airport’s a lot farther from stuff than the Prime Osborn is. Not sure why this would be different.

[Steve]

If you're paying Brightline fares, Uber is certainly an option, regardless of what city you're in. What happens with Amtrak is also something that comes into play with Jax. Jax remains the rail gateway into and from Florida. That infrastructure isn't going anywhere any time soon. It's the only major city in the state where this intercity system could be fed intercity rail riders from outside of Florida. Although we tend to jump on JTA from time to time, they're even investing in a multimodal transit hub next to where a potential station would be. So locally, you will have the option to hop on the JTA Flyer or Skyway to access various destinations in the city.

I've looked into Amtrak to get to Lakeland too (At least I could then work on the trip). The problem is that in looking online, the "on-time" rate of the train isn't great and even if it is, the times for the route are terrible. Not really conducive for business travelers. Works fine I guess for retirees looking to not drive somewhere.

[thelakelander]

Outside of the auto train, you probably wouldn't need Amtrak south running south of Jax if Brightline were extended to Tampa and Jax.

[Lostwave]

Daytona and St Augustine would definitely be two good stops that would bring visitors from the South but I don't see Jax being a destination.  No one from points south are coming here for theme parks, beaches, shopping, or museums and I doubt anyone from Daytona is going to take a train to Jax only to have to Uber it all over once they are here.  I'm not sure what kind of business travel Jax would generate unless we got a lot more companies from JTB/Baymeadows/Avenues to relocate downtown.

Maybe people from other parts of Florida wouldn't want to take a train to Jacksonville.  But I know I and a lot of other people would love to be able to take a train from Jacksonville to south Florida, Orlando or Tampa.

[MusicMan]

User reviews from South Florida Business Journal:

https://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2018/07/10/from-the-editor-business-commuters-embrace.html

[itsfantastic1]

Does anyone have any particular insight as to why the Tampa route is being explored prior to the Jax route? I know they have expansion LLCs for both the Tampa and Jax routes, but why does the Tampa one seem to be moving forward and the Jax isn't?

I assume that the revenue is higher for the Tampa route, but wouldn't the cost of all that construction outweigh it when compared to the rail upgrades required for Jax route? On the flip side, could the construction costs be the reason to move forward now? Material prices may increase with tariffs, a potential recession, possibility for the state to do something else in the I-4 median before Brightline builds or loss of interest from the Feds?

I'd love to have a high speed rail go from Miami to Atlanta through Jacksonville, with a side spur to Orlando/Tampa.

[Steve]

I mean Orlando-Tampa is a lot shorter distance for more people than Jacksonville. It was probably simple as that.

[thelakelander]

Tampa takes longer. There's no infrastructure. By the time something is actually running to Tampa, something to Jax could still be happening simultaneously.

[thelakelander]

Combine Orlando and Polk with the Bay area (roughly 80 miles) and you'll hit at least 7 million residents and who knows how many tourists. Also I-4 really is becoming a parking lot. So the markets aren't comparable either.

[tufsu1]

^ Never mind the resident population. The visitor markets aren't remotely comparable.

[Pottsburg]

Does anyone have any particular insight as to why the Tampa route is being explored prior to the Jax route? I know they have expansion LLCs for both the Tampa and Jax routes, but why does the Tampa one seem to be moving forward and the Jax isn't?

I assume that the revenue is higher for the Tampa route, but wouldn't the cost of all that construction outweigh it when compared to the rail upgrades required for Jax route? On the flip side, could the construction costs be the reason to move forward now? Material prices may increase with tariffs, a potential recession, possibility for the state to do something else in the I-4 median before Brightline builds or loss of interest from the Feds?

I'd love to have a high speed rail go from Miami to Atlanta through Jacksonville, with a side spur to Orlando/Tampa.

Although the route seems easier to Jax, the construction would be harder and more costly if your not counting the cost of land. Also it becomes a major inconvenience for FEC at times. It’s not as simple as just adding a 2nd track (double main). They have to move crossing gates and cantilevers. Also recable the old locations which is tricky to do while try to not interrupt the current working road crossing. When they have a clear path to Tampa they can “rip and run” as we say. You don’t have to worry about hitting things in the ground like fiber optics, signal cable, power cable, water and gas lines. I’m sure they will run into things here and there but not every crossing like on the Jax route.

[thelakelander]

No, its a hell of a lot more complicated and costly to build new track on a corridor you don't own. An extension to Jax would be similar to the MIA-WPB section that's already in operation.  Getting to Tampa could take just as long as the delayed Orlando segment.

[Pottsburg]

Like I said the land acquisition is the X factor.  Watch how fast the get the 528 corridor installed. From Cocoa to Orlando will be the easy part. They are behind because of all the problems we have run into from WPB to Miami.  If the path is clear (ie you have the land) then the construction part will be easier. That’s what I’m saying.

[thelakelander]

It's taken years to get studies and work out agreements to get the easement into Orlando. WPB to MIA didn't take long for construction. The Treasure Coast stuff still didn't stop them from considering running up to Cocoa while waiting for the new line into Orlando to be completed. Tampa won't be any different.