Author Topic: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018  (Read 59086 times)

acme54321

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2503
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #465 on: July 31, 2019, 03:45:51 PM »
What exactly is costing $450 million?

The new JEA headquarters is $75 million
Vista Brooklyn is $52 million
The Hyatt Place downtown is $23 million

Assuming something similar is built there is still $300,000,000 on the table.  I can't imagine a parking garage and LIVE arena are going to cost $300 million.  Depending on the public incentives we could just eliminate the middle man (Khan), build this ourselves, and keep 100% of the profit.

Also, I don't think they know what "mixed use" means.

That ridiculous parking deck is going to be ridiculously expensive.

CityLife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1843
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #466 on: July 31, 2019, 04:10:05 PM »
What exactly is costing $450 million?

The new JEA headquarters is $75 million
Vista Brooklyn is $52 million
The Hyatt Place downtown is $23 million

Assuming something similar is built there is still $300,000,000 on the table.  I can't imagine a parking garage and LIVE arena are going to cost $300 million.  Depending on the public incentives we could just eliminate the middle man (Khan), build this ourselves, and keep 100% of the profit.

Also, I don't think they know what "mixed use" means.

"Mixed-Use" can be vertically or horizontally integrated. This is quite clearly a horizontally integrated mixed-use project.

The renderings look to be of a higher caliber than Vista Brooklyn (which is actually $60 million), JEA, and Hyatt Place, so not sure the cost is really apples to apples.

Will be interested to see the actual figures, incentive package, and development program once released.

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30616
    • Modern Cities
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #467 on: July 31, 2019, 05:00:46 PM »
The renderings appear to be placeholders that will eventually be value engineered into real buildings when they get that far along. I was excited to see the actual figures, incentive package request and development timeline but I guess we'll have to wait a bit more time for that information.   As for the $450 million tag, I assume the numbers can get up there when you're including a massive garage and may have to resolve any potential contamination issues with the former heavy industrial site.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

MusicMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2127
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #468 on: July 31, 2019, 10:13:28 PM »
What is the proposed purpose of the "LIVE ARENA?"  Won't it be right next door to Daily's Place?

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30616
    • Modern Cities
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #469 on: July 31, 2019, 10:16:57 PM »
^Live Arena can easily be explained as a miniature Landing with a covered courtyard for live and special events. See this article for more detail:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/what-is-lot-j-the-jaguars-500-million-development/
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Kerry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1882
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #470 on: July 31, 2019, 11:14:33 PM »
^Live Arena can easily be explained as a miniature Landing with a covered courtyard for live and special events. See this article for more detail:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/what-is-lot-j-the-jaguars-500-million-development/

And since we don't need two venues like that.....
Third Place

JaGoaT

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #471 on: August 01, 2019, 12:11:01 AM »
Will any of that money go to bringing down the bridge overpass????

vicupstate

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3355
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #472 on: August 01, 2019, 04:55:40 AM »
The renderings appear to be placeholders that will eventually be value engineered into real buildings when they get that far along. I was excited to see the actual figures, incentive package request and development timeline but I guess we'll have to wait a bit more time for that information.   As for the $450 million tag, I assume the numbers can get up there when you're including a massive garage and may have to resolve any potential contamination issues with the former heavy industrial site.

The $450 mm is probably total buildout including all the buildings in the rendering. Some of which will come later.
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30616
    • Modern Cities
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #473 on: August 01, 2019, 06:47:23 AM »
$233.3 million in public incentives.  $50 million of that is for LIVE.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Kerry

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1882
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #474 on: August 01, 2019, 07:11:38 AM »
$233.3 million in public incentives.  $50 million of that is for LIVE.

We have to foot half the bill?  There literally should be citizens marching on City Hall with pitchforks and torches.

In a sane world we would just thank the Jags for calling Jax home and politely tell them to leave town.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 07:17:31 AM by Kerry »
Third Place

comncense

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 668
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #475 on: August 01, 2019, 08:04:14 AM »
Per @SBrownReports on Twitter

"So, overall, the proposed Lot J terms have the City invest $233.3 million. Considering development-related costs (excluding $25 million property tax rebate), City funds $208.3 of the $450 million proposed development. Still pending DIA/City Council approval."

"For parking, term sheet says there would be the same number of overall spaces as Lot J has (1,300), with 700 on a surface lot and 600 integrated in to the residential tower, office tower, hotel, and street parking. Tenants of those towers have first right to access those spaces."

"Additionally, Lot J term sheet says City is proposing $65.5 million grant to "facilitate the development of the Project"."

"Term sheet says City will pay $92.8 million in infrastructure improvements, including structured parking, surface parking, environmental remediation, and other site improvements."

"City proposing 20-year property tax rebate of around $25 million. The rebate applies to the proposed luxury high-rise residential tower, boutique hotel, and office tower."

"Under this proposal, City would contribute 50% of cost of development of the Live! entertainment district (entertainment venue), up to $50 million. City will own this venue, developer will operate it. Event parking and ticket surcharge will be used for future maintenance needs."

"These are the components of the Lot J project, but the term sheet says that could change, based on market conditions. Changes could include adding more residential instead of the office and/or hotel."


CityLife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1843
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #476 on: August 01, 2019, 08:55:24 AM »
$208.3 million dollars of City money (excluding REV grant which is an abatement of future tax money not actual cash) seems like quite a large chunk of money. Has the City or Khan/Cordish done any kind of cost/benefit analysis? What will the $208.3 million generate in bed taxes, property taxes, consumer spending, etc. How many permanent (not just construction) jobs will be created? If Khan/Cordish convert the office to residential, do they have to pay back a portion of the incentives? What type of programming requirements will the City place on Live!? Will it be booked as poorly as Daily's Place has? Who is the operator of the "boutique hotel"?

Lot of questions remain. Hopefully the DIA and City will provide more information.


Charles Hunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2895
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #477 on: August 01, 2019, 09:16:50 AM »
CityLife - the City (Council / Mayor) only have probing questions when it is the School Board proposing to spend money. Questions not appreciated of deals with Khan.

Quote
"For parking, term sheet says there would be the same number of overall spaces as Lot J has (1,300), with 700 on a surface lot and 600 integrated in to the residential tower, office tower, hotel, and street parking. Tenants of those towers have first right to access those spaces."
A net loss of 600 spaces adjacent to the stadium and Daily's place.



Isn't this a change from previous renderings / proposals?
Quote
Surface parking lot (700 spaces), above the storm water retention pond to the west of Lot J.

I recall previous discussion of "structured parking" over the retention pond. Now, technically, a parking lot built over a retention pond is a "structure."  But, in my mind, the implication was a multi-level parking deck was envisioned.

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30616
    • Modern Cities
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #478 on: August 01, 2019, 09:33:12 AM »

"These are the components of the Lot J project, but the term sheet says that could change, based on market conditions. Changes could include adding more residential instead of the office and/or hotel."


Money aside, this caught my eye....

3-4. The hotel and office towers sound more like speculative pad development than actual projects ready to go vertical. They may or may not happen, depending on the market. So there is a possibility that we could be looking at Live! sitting in the middle of a parking lot for years to come if the market isn't there to support hotel, Class-A office, luxury residential tower construction.

5. The garage discussed over the pond to the west of Lot J is now a surface parking lot. So there's still a lack of connection between the development and the stuff on A. Philip Randolph like IAW, the proposed Doro District, etc. Is there a long term plan to develop over this massive surface parking lot?

With that said, the term sheet basically confirms my comment about the rendering from yesterday. That rendering is completely conceptual and the towers and architecture illustrated will likely change when real projects materialize. Also, nothing south of the Hart Bridge Expressway is included in this, despite what's depicted in the visionary renderings.



« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 09:35:44 AM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Steve

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3285
Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #479 on: August 01, 2019, 09:38:51 AM »
Nope. This deal doesn’t work for me. Basically COJ is owning all risk and having to prepare a site that Cordish, frankly, doesn’t have to develop.

How does this make any sense?