Author Topic: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018  (Read 50114 times)

Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #435 on: July 09, 2019, 09:14:34 AM »
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Curry said he expects an incentives package will be presented to City Council by the end of the summer. He said it will be “a comprehensive plan of what Lot J will look like” and “not piecemeal.”

Translation:  We are going to give the Jags all the incentive money upfront with no guarantee that any of Lot J will be built.  Why?  Because the whole purpose here is to keep the Jags in Jax now, not 20 years from now.  The Jag finances must be worse than even I thought it was.
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fieldafm

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #436 on: July 09, 2019, 09:26:41 AM »
Quote
Curry said he expects an incentives package will be presented to City Council by the end of the summer. He said it will be “a comprehensive plan of what Lot J will look like” and “not piecemeal.”

Translation:  We are going to give the Jags all the incentive money upfront with no guarantee that any of Lot J will be built.  Why?  Because the whole purpose here is to keep the Jags in Jax now, not 20 years from now.  The Jag finances must be worse than even I thought it was.

You really are annoying.

The article indicated that the incentives will include completion grants and REV grants.  Those are paid a) upon completion and b) as an annual rebate against property taxes.

Now, what the article doesn't mention is the extensive remediation costs and the construction of a very large parking garage... all of which will be borne by the City. Hard to argue that environmental remediation costs wouldn't be the responsibility of the City on City-owned property. Those could be quite high.

As for the parking garage... devil is in the details. Really curious what the proposal is there.  If the City builds/owns that facility... but it includes a ton of parking credits to Cordish/Jags/future users, than the likelihood of the garage ever making money will be small (see the $50 million in subsidies given to MPS for the other sports complex garages).

Tacachale

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #437 on: July 09, 2019, 09:40:40 AM »
City, Jaguars ‘verbally close’ to agreement on Lot J deal

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-jaguars-verbally-close-to-agreement-on-lot-j-deal

The city has been doing such an awesome job developing Downtown that there's no doubt this will be just as good.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 10:43:10 AM by Tacachale »
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #438 on: July 09, 2019, 10:18:15 AM »
Quote
Curry said he expects an incentives package will be presented to City Council by the end of the summer. He said it will be “a comprehensive plan of what Lot J will look like” and “not piecemeal.”

Translation:  We are going to give the Jags all the incentive money upfront with no guarantee that any of Lot J will be built.  Why?  Because the whole purpose here is to keep the Jags in Jax now, not 20 years from now.  The Jag finances must be worse than even I thought it was.

You really are annoying.

The article indicated that the incentives will include completion grants and REV grants.  Those are paid a) upon completion and b) as an annual rebate against property taxes.

It says "could" and an unidentified 'City Official' is credited with the comment.  If the intent was to pay the incentives in a staggard timeline then why would the Mayor present the request for incentives as a final product?
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KenFSU

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #439 on: July 09, 2019, 10:36:53 AM »
If the intent was to pay the incentives in a staggard timeline then why would the Mayor present the request for incentives as a final product?

^Because it's easier to get the City Council to approve a neatly packaged set of incentives for the entire Lot J project than it is to get them approve a garage, hotel, office building, Live! complex, and residential tower piecemeal. The Jags did the same thing when they packaged stadium upgrades with new video boards, or club level renovations with a practice facility and ampitheater.

To Mike's point, the devil is in the details, and hopefully the city reads the fine print. In the above instances, the city acted shocked after the fact when they discovered that they had to pay the massive electricity bill for the video boards, or when they learned that they had to throw down millions every year to add temporary seating for Florida/Georgia.

The city has been doing such an awesome job developing Downtown that there's doubt this will be just as good.

^If the City Council approves the economic development agreement - which I have no doubt they will based on the Landing vote- I think it'll be a pretty awesome project in terms of execution. Cordish is legit, the Jags have capital for days and are vested in Lot J's success, and if the project is successful, it might finally spur additional development in the Shipyards and Doro District.

It'll just be obscenely expensive and come at the expense of investment in the downtown core.

This might be mega pessimistic, but personally, seeing how our capital/downtown investment dollars have been spent in the central business district in the last four years (demolishing the Landing, Coastline, the old Courthouse, City Hall Annex, etc.), I'd much rather the current administration just leave the northbank core alone for the next four years and focus on the area between the Berkman and the sports complex. At least that way they're not doing active harm to our historic building fabric and we're getting net-new development on the edge of downtown. Insane subsidies that are going to leave us in a hole or construction of a convention center is where I'd draw the line, but what's currently proposed for Lot J ain't exactly gonna put downtown out of business.

--

Side note, with JEA out of the picture, I've been hearing that the Jags are interested in Fanatics for Lot J.

Interesting timing that, shortly after JEA chose Ryan, Curry personally introduced legislation to help Fanatics satisfy their existing economic development agreement on the southside:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/fanatics-seeking-changes-to-economic-development-agreement

Might just be a coincidence, but something to keep an eye on.

Really, if Lot J is going to be a thing that happens, Fanatics would be the perfect fit.

RiversideRambler

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #440 on: July 09, 2019, 11:08:04 AM »
Are there any details on the Live! Arena? With Daily's Place and Veterans Memorial Arena next door, it doesn't seem like all three can coexist.

wanderson91

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #441 on: July 09, 2019, 11:33:01 AM »
I think the Live! Arena was essentially a replacement for the Metro Park stage? So more of a venue for music festivals or maybe sports adjacent concerts

I imagine a lot of this work is being done with the intent to bid for a Super Bowl or draft day in the next 10 years

KenFSU

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #442 on: July 09, 2019, 11:38:32 AM »
Are there any details on the Live! Arena? With Daily's Place and Veterans Memorial Arena next door, it doesn't seem like all three can coexist.

They would all serve different purposes.

Veterans Arena is for the Arianna Grande-ish concerts that can pack in 12,000+.



Daily's is for a slightly lower tier of act that can pack in up to 5,500.



The Live! Arenas are more like what's at the Landing right now - they basically just convert the interior of the mall into a standing-room only concert venue. Lesser tier acts. Not always ticketed. Maybe 2,000 max. Without all the parking and concession overhead of the larger venues.


fieldafm

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #443 on: July 09, 2019, 01:18:06 PM »
Ken pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Fourth Street Live in Louisville is exactly what the Landing wanted to do awhile ago.... which is to say cut a hole down the middle but keep the roof intact.

The Live! 'arenas' are basically just big indoor sports bars with stages that back into each of their standard tenants (a PBR, some type of brewpub, usually some smaller quick casual places/food court)... not much different than what the Landing was/could have been, to be honest.

Here is Texas Live! out in Arlington

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/what-is-lot-j-the-jaguars-500-million-development/

blizz01

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #444 on: July 09, 2019, 02:51:42 PM »
Side note: I saw that Pollstar has Daily's Place as a top 20 amphitheatre type venue.  Worldwide.  As if that isn't enough, St. Augustine is 3rd (#2 in the U.S.).

Tacachale

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #445 on: July 09, 2019, 03:02:02 PM »
Side note: I saw that Pollstar has Daily's Place as a top 20 amphitheatre type venue.  Worldwide.  As if that isn't enough, St. Augustine is 3rd (#2 in the U.S.).

Still haven't been to Daily's Place. Been to St. Augustine a number of times since Daily's opened, though.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

KenFSU

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #446 on: July 09, 2019, 03:12:59 PM »
Side note: I saw that Pollstar has Daily's Place as a top 20 amphitheatre type venue.  Worldwide.  As if that isn't enough, St. Augustine is 3rd (#2 in the U.S.).

Still haven't been to Daily's Place. Been to St. Augustine a number of times since Daily's opened, though.

This feels like it's right up your alley:

https://www.dailysplace.com/events/detail/bush-live-the-altimate-tour

Tacachale

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #447 on: July 09, 2019, 03:27:32 PM »
Side note: I saw that Pollstar has Daily's Place as a top 20 amphitheatre type venue.  Worldwide.  As if that isn't enough, St. Augustine is 3rd (#2 in the U.S.).

Still haven't been to Daily's Place. Been to St. Augustine a number of times since Daily's opened, though.

This feels like it's right up your alley:

https://www.dailysplace.com/events/detail/bush-live-the-altimate-tour

Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

fieldafm

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #448 on: July 09, 2019, 03:33:11 PM »
Side note: I saw that Pollstar has Daily's Place as a top 20 amphitheatre type venue.  Worldwide.  As if that isn't enough, St. Augustine is 3rd (#2 in the U.S.).

Still haven't been to Daily's Place. Been to St. Augustine a number of times since Daily's opened, though.

This feels like it's right up your alley:

https://www.dailysplace.com/events/detail/bush-live-the-altimate-tour

To be fair, I was given free tickets to the Live/Counting Crows concert at Dailys last summer.  Counting Crows were awful, and Adam Duritz looked like he had just given up on life in general. I spent the entire time thinking 'how in the hell did this dude used to date the likes of mid-20 year old Jennifer Aniston and  Courtney Cox?'. That was of course in between politely dropping an occasional 'can we please go and end this misery?'

Live, however put on a good concert. Ed Kowalczyk looked like he was in his mid-30's instead of late 40's.

Tacachale is too high brow to be seen in any post-grunge environments, of course. Fortunately, there are still great seats available for Peter Frampton  :D

CityLife

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #449 on: July 09, 2019, 03:35:29 PM »
Might as well call it “I Love the 90’s Ampitheater” or VH1 Ampitheater at this point.

Hope everyone is ready for Smashmouth and Seven Mary Three to crush it at Jax Live!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2019, 03:39:03 PM by CityLife »