Author Topic: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018  (Read 27077 times)

Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #285 on: June 13, 2018, 05:47:07 PM »
Maybe I’m not explaining properly. The Jaguars contributed $45M of their own Money. The COJ contributed $45M of Government Money. The total project was $90M.

I wrote it the way I did (perhaps confusing) because technically the COJ didn't pay the contractor, they paid the Jaguars, who managed the project in exchange for being responsible for overruns.

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #286 on: June 13, 2018, 05:56:20 PM »
Maybe I’m not explaining properly. The Jaguars contributed $45M of their own Money. The COJ contributed $45M of Government Money. The total project was $90M.

I wrote it the way I did (perhaps confusing) because technically the COJ didn't pay the contractor, they paid the Jaguars, who managed the project in exchange for being responsible for overruns.

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Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #287 on: June 13, 2018, 06:51:30 PM »
I think this explains the money spent pretty well.

The Daily Place deal was a bad deal for the taxpayers.  The City should have paid for it 100% and kept ALL the profits then told Khan to pay for his own stadium improvements if he thought it would financially benefit HIS business.

How much money do you think COJ makes from a concert at say, the Arena? It isn't much once you take out SMG's fees. I can't fathom how spending an extra $45M would have resulted in a better deal for the city.

While I don't feel this way, I suppose you could have made that argument for the Club Renovations and other stadium work. I can't see how the same argument could be made for Daily's Place.

Further, remember that the Cub Renovations and stadium improvements also benefit things like the Florida Georgia game and events like the FSU kickoff game in 2019. Atlanta is gunning hard (and has been) for the Florida Georgia game. That's one we really don't want to lose.

There are a lot of shades of gray here.

Daily's Place is a huge net positive for the area and fills a gap that we've been trying to fill since the 1990's.

And though I wouldn't characterize it as a terrible deal for the city, I can at least understand Kerry's point of view.

Total breakdown for the $90 million project, which the city split equally with Khan, was:

$20 million - Jaguars Practice Field
$25 million - Assure Club Renovations
$45 million - Daily's Place

The widely accepted narrative is that Khan went in half with the city on a $45 million ampitheater.

The flip-side of the narrative, which people don't talk about as much, is that this must also mean that the city paid half for a $20 million practice field for a $2.1 billion private business, and half for $25 million club seat upgrades which the Jags obviously benefit from much more than the city does.

I think a more accurate way to look at the project is:

- The Jags funded a $20 million practice facility.
- The Jags and city split the $25 million club seat upgrades 50/50
- The city spent $32.5 million on Daily's Place, with the Jags kicking in $12.5 million

As the city owns all three properties, we are responsible for maintenance, upkeep, and utilities for all three venues, including the Jaguars' practice facility.

Somehow though, the Jaguars get to keep 100% of naming rights revenue from the club section (USS Assure), the practice field (Dream Finders) and the amphitheater (Daily's), in addition to using a city-owned, city-funded practice field rent-free, and getting a cut of all of the profits at Daily's Place through Bold Events.

Whatever, it came from bed taxes, not the general fund, which have to be used for this type of project anyway.

I ain't mad, the arrangement seems fine with all parties.

We got a much needed asset in Daily's Place, and built some goodwill with Khan and the Jags, which is the price to pay to be in the NFL game in 2018.

But I do think it's a mischaracterization to label Daily's Place as some kind of altruistic 50/50 gift from the Jags to the city without in turn mentioning the practice field and club upgrades as 50/50 gifts from the city to a private corporation.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 06:53:45 PM by Kerry »
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Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #288 on: June 13, 2018, 07:21:05 PM »
I mean okay-under that logic, you could say the COJ paid entirely for Daily’s Place and the Jaguars paid for the club renovations and the Practice Field

Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #289 on: June 13, 2018, 07:27:58 PM »
Also, while you can argue that the City and Jaguars should split the Daily’s Place naming rights (heck, make the argument that the city should keep it), but TIAA, US Assure, and Dream Finders wouldn’t pay any more than 10% of what they paid if not for the team.

TIAA Bank gets on TV nationally 9 times a year because of the Jaguars. No Jaguars, no home games, TIAA doesn’t sponsor. Dream Finders is the same way. Without an NFL team, there is no practice field, and no practices to be covered by the media from the Dream Finders Home Practice Facility.

Put another way: people aren’t lining up to by naming rights for the Baseball Grounds of Jacksonville.

Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #290 on: June 13, 2018, 08:22:00 PM »
That is because Jax has a pretty weak corporate base.  Lots of cities have arenas with corporate sponsorship and no pro team.  Before the Thunder moved to Oklahoma City the arena there was sponsored by Ford.  There was no primary tenant of any kind.  10% of something is better than 0% of anything.

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Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #291 on: June 13, 2018, 08:26:14 PM »
Even Wichita has an arena sponsor.

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BridgeTroll

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #292 on: June 14, 2018, 07:22:58 AM »
Are there any other businesses in Jax that have the payroll the Jags pay their staff, coaches, and players?  Probably 60+ 7 figure+ salaries...  another 30 or so 6 figure and a multitude of very good paying jobs... all living and spending in Duval... at least part time.

https://overthecap.com/contracts/jacksonville-jaguars/
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Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #293 on: June 14, 2018, 09:15:04 AM »
Are there any other businesses in Jax that have the payroll the Jags pay their staff, coaches, and players?  Probably 60+ 7 figure+ salaries...  another 30 or so 6 figure and a multitude of very good paying jobs... all living and spending in Duval... at least part time.

https://overthecap.com/contracts/jacksonville-jaguars/

Very few if any. Well Put.

Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #294 on: June 14, 2018, 09:27:14 AM »
That is because Jax has a pretty weak corporate base.  Lots of cities have arenas with corporate sponsorship and no pro team.  Before the Thunder moved to Oklahoma City the arena there was sponsored by Ford.  There was no primary tenant of any kind.  10% of something is better than 0% of anything.



On this we agree and you proved my point:

Regarding naming rights of minor league arenas:

The Wichita Arena's naming rights sold for $350,000/year
The OKC Arena's naming rights sold for $540,000/year (as you said, this was before The Thunder came to call it home.
Chesapeake Energy has naming rights now in OKC, sold for $3M/year with a 3% increase each year.
EverBank paid $4.3M for the naming rights.

I believe I said that the naming rights would maybe go for 10% of what they are now, which is about right (give or take). That's why I'm fine with the naming rights money going to the Jaguars. They are the reason they deal is what it is. Would it be nice to get 10% of it? Sure, I'll take money. I would also agree that the COJ should likely get something for Daily's Place. While the Jags developed it, I can't fathom the naming rights value is materially different because of the Jaguars.

But, I'd also say if we were that concerned, then we probably shouldn't have legislated that the Arena naming rights never be sold, either.

With regard to a weak corporate base, while I wouldn't use the term "weak", I do fundamentally agree with you. We don't have the corporate base that even some other mid-sized cities have. While I love that our largest employer is the US Navy, I don't see Uncle Sam sponsoring a naming rights deal or other typical corporate charitable donations.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 09:32:51 AM by Steve »

Wacca Pilatka

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #295 on: June 14, 2018, 09:34:18 AM »
^ To clarify on the Ford Center, the naming rights purchase came not from Ford Motor Co. but from some Oklahoma alliance of Ford dealerships - essentially the equivalent of the "Southern Ford Dealers" group in southeast GA and northeast FL.  That and the lack of a pro team is why it wasn't a particularly big-dollar naming rights deal, as Steve noted.  The minor league hockey team, the Blazers, was the primary tenant there at the time, and they were in that era a big draw by minor league standards.
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Wacca Pilatka

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #296 on: June 14, 2018, 09:41:48 AM »

With regard to a weak corporate base, while I wouldn't use the term "weak", I do fundamentally agree with you. We don't have the corporate base that even some other mid-sized cities have. While I love that our largest employer is the US Navy, I don't see Uncle Sam sponsoring a naming rights deal or other typical corporate charitable donations.

On a similar note, I remember talking in 2010 or so to a friend who worked in corporate sales for the Jaguars, and he observed that CSX had always been very supportive of the team, but it made no shareholder sense for them to put CSX Field on the name of the stadium - "no one's going to see that on TV and say 'I think that's the train I'll ship my products on next time.'"
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Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #297 on: June 14, 2018, 09:50:41 AM »

With regard to a weak corporate base, while I wouldn't use the term "weak", I do fundamentally agree with you. We don't have the corporate base that even some other mid-sized cities have. While I love that our largest employer is the US Navy, I don't see Uncle Sam sponsoring a naming rights deal or other typical corporate charitable donations.

On a similar note, I remember talking in 2010 or so to a friend who worked in corporate sales for the Jaguars, and he observed that CSX had always been very supportive of the team, but it made no shareholder sense for them to put CSX Field on the name of the stadium - "no one's going to see that on TV and say 'I think that's the train I'll ship my products on next time.'"

Amen:

If you look at the companies based here, it's an odd mix that tends to cater a little to B2B:

CSX
Fidelity National Financial
Black Knight
Landstar
Rayonier

Obviously Southeastern Grocers and Stein Mart are here, but the former isn't really in a position to write that sort of check, and Stein Mart, while not doing terrible, isn't the sort of company that writes naming rights checks.

Wacca Pilatka

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #298 on: June 14, 2018, 10:31:45 AM »
^ It's a much different mix than Jacksonville had when it was contending for a team in the late 70s-early 90s and had Barnett, First Union of Florida/its predecessors, Independent Life, Charter, et al. as corporate power players.

(A similar story to why downtown has unoccupied office space and no new office skyscrapers for 25 years.)
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Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #299 on: June 15, 2018, 11:11:33 AM »

With regard to a weak corporate base, while I wouldn't use the term "weak", I do fundamentally agree with you. We don't have the corporate base that even some other mid-sized cities have. While I love that our largest employer is the US Navy, I don't see Uncle Sam sponsoring a naming rights deal or other typical corporate charitable donations.

On a similar note, I remember talking in 2010 or so to a friend who worked in corporate sales for the Jaguars, and he observed that CSX had always been very supportive of the team, but it made no shareholder sense for them to put CSX Field on the name of the stadium - "no one's going to see that on TV and say 'I think that's the train I'll ship my products on next time.'"

How many people are buying oil and gas by the super tanker load from Chesapeake Energy?  They sponsor the arena in OKC because they compete in the region for employee talent.

Also, when the Ford Center was renamed the City got to keep the amount of money in the naming rights deal with the Thunder that they were making from the non-team deal - so the City didn't lose any money and the team go their share of value they created.  THAT is how you do it.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 11:19:06 AM by Kerry »
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