Author Topic: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018  (Read 27145 times)

Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #255 on: June 13, 2018, 02:17:41 PM »
^Doesn't the city still own the buildings and the improvements? Don't you think the city benefits by having the team here? I think there are far worse examples of public money creating private wealth.

Thanks for the reminder - we are responsible for all upkeep and maintenance.  No cost sharing there.

Does the City benefit from the team?  In my opinion that answer is No - it doesn't.  Do individual citizens benefit, yes the do.

Again, not true. Much of the club renovations were for maintenance, not aesthetics. For example, the club air conditioners barely worked in the last couple years-they were 24 years old so not shocking. The Jaguars paid HALF of the bill. Again I ask, how is that not splitting costs?

Lostwave

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #256 on: June 13, 2018, 02:18:16 PM »
It isn't 50/50, but I'll admit it isn't 100/0 either.  We do seem to pick up a large portion of expenses the team specifically benefits from while they get to buy into projects that produce revenue outside of the Jags core business.  That isn't a good deal for the City.  The Jags have doubled in value since Khan bought them due in large part to the deals he has worked with the City, but will we see any of that money when the team is sold someday?  Nope - that is public debt for private wealth creation at its worst.

Well, if we’re talking about the latest round, the Jaguars spent over $90M, and the COJ’s contribution was capped at $45M. That seems quite a lot like 50/50 to me.

That aside, there are an incredible number of indirect benefits to having the team here, in things like national exposure and quality of life. On game day, there are 65k in the Jacksonville area doing one thing, and a couple hundred thousand watching it on TV. Find me any other thing in Jacksonville where about 20% of the Metro Area is doing the exact same thing.

From a perspective thing when you think about other cities, the largest MSA without either a team in the four major sports is Austin, Texas. They are a bit of an exception as they have Texas’ flagship public university. After that is Virginia Beach-Norfolk, then Richmond, then Louisville. While I’d certainly wouldn’t mind having the economic growth of Austin, I definitely don’t want to be in Richmond’s or Norfolk’s shoes in terms of growth.

I definitely think the Jaguars deserve a portion of the credit for the economic growth.

I wish this site had a "Like" button.

Adam White

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #257 on: June 13, 2018, 02:19:26 PM »
It isn't 50/50, but I'll admit it isn't 100/0 either.  We do seem to pick up a large portion of expenses the team specifically benefits from while they get to buy into projects that produce revenue outside of the Jags core business.  That isn't a good deal for the City.  The Jags have doubled in value since Khan bought them due in large part to the deals he has worked with the City, but will we see any of that money when the team is sold someday?  Nope - that is public debt for private wealth creation at its worst.

Well, if we’re talking about the latest round, the Jaguars spent over $90M, and the COJ’s contribution was capped at $45M. That seems quite a lot like 50/50 to me.


You may wish to revisit your math.
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Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #258 on: June 13, 2018, 02:22:38 PM »
Yes I am sure.  Your quote is about bold events and the amphitheater, not the stadium.  The events I was talking about were all in the football stadium.  Your opinion is your opinion about football and cancer, you can choose to like or not like either.  I am just giving you facts.

Well, I kind of look at all the Khan enterprises as a collective unit.  They are only divided up for contract, tax and accounting reasons but for all practical purposes - they are all one entity.  They all have the same mission.
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Adam White

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #259 on: June 13, 2018, 02:25:01 PM »
While I’d certainly wouldn’t mind having the economic growth of Austin, I definitely don’t want to be in Richmond’s or Norfolk’s shoes in terms of growth.

I definitely think the Jaguars deserve a portion of the credit for the economic growth.

Maybe their lack of economic growth is because they're in VA. Or maybe it's because they start with letters that come later in the alphabet. Both 'hypothoses' are just as reasonable as randomly assuming that the presence of a professional football team is the reason for purported better growth on the part of Jax.
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Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #260 on: June 13, 2018, 02:27:51 PM »
Sure they contribute to quality of life and maybe to some extent economic development (although when factoring in opportunity cost - that is probably a negative).  I guess my big issue is, why can't they do it without public subsidies?

Khan is buying Wimble Stadium for nearly a billion dollars - maybe Jax should offer him a package deal for the Stadium, Daily Place, practice field, and parking lots - $300 million and he gets the whole thing and all the revenue and expenses.
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Lostwave

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #261 on: June 13, 2018, 02:30:22 PM »
Yes I am sure.  Your quote is about bold events and the amphitheater, not the stadium.  The events I was talking about were all in the football stadium.  Your opinion is your opinion about football and cancer, you can choose to like or not like either.  I am just giving you facts.

Well, I kind of look at all the Khan enterprises as a collective unit.  They are only divided up for contract, tax and accounting reasons but for all practical purposes - they are all one entity.  They all have the same mission.

Fair enough...

And also don't forget, the other events, FL/GA, Bowl Game, Monster Jam, US Soccer and whatever else have nothing to do with the Jaguars and Khan.  They make nothing on those events, thats all city.  So the clubs and scoreboards etc are a benefit to the city.

But above is my quote you were trying to debunk.  FL/GA, Gator Bowl, Monster Jam, random soccer games etc, have nothing to do with the thing you call "Khan Enterprises" (I don't think that is a thing, but I will run with it)  The city runs those and makes money from those, not the Jags.  You took my quote and posted another quote from the newspaper that is completely irrelevant to what I was saying.  That is all. 

To your point (which, again had nothing to do with my point), yes Bold Events makes money from the amphitheater.  Yes the Jags use the Practice Facility.  But the city owns and runs all the buildings, and the Jags contribute a lot to those buildings (paid 50%).  This is a partnership that helps everyone. 

jaxjags

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #262 on: June 13, 2018, 02:37:16 PM »
Sure glad Kerry didn’t live in Jax in 1989.

Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #263 on: June 13, 2018, 02:42:07 PM »
It isn't 50/50, but I'll admit it isn't 100/0 either.  We do seem to pick up a large portion of expenses the team specifically benefits from while they get to buy into projects that produce revenue outside of the Jags core business.  That isn't a good deal for the City.  The Jags have doubled in value since Khan bought them due in large part to the deals he has worked with the City, but will we see any of that money when the team is sold someday?  Nope - that is public debt for private wealth creation at its worst.

Well, if we’re talking about the latest round, the Jaguars spent over $90M, and the COJ’s contribution was capped at $45M. That seems quite a lot like 50/50 to me.


You may wish to revisit your math.

The math is correct. COJ gave the Jaguars $45M. The Jaguars then managed the project and were responsible for any cost overruns.

Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #264 on: June 13, 2018, 02:45:23 PM »
Yes I am sure.  Your quote is about bold events and the amphitheater, not the stadium.  The events I was talking about were all in the football stadium.  Your opinion is your opinion about football and cancer, you can choose to like or not like either.  I am just giving you facts.

Well, I kind of look at all the Khan enterprises as a collective unit.  They are only divided up for contract, tax and accounting reasons but for all practical purposes - they are all one entity.  They all have the same mission.

Fair enough...

And also don't forget, the other events, FL/GA, Bowl Game, Monster Jam, US Soccer and whatever else have nothing to do with the Jaguars and Khan.  They make nothing on those events, thats all city.  So the clubs and scoreboards etc are a benefit to the city.

But above is my quote you were trying to debunk.  FL/GA, Gator Bowl, Monster Jam, random soccer games etc, have nothing to do with the thing you call "Khan Enterprises" (I don't think that is a thing, but I will run with it)  The city runs those and makes money from those, not the Jags.  You took my quote and posted another quote from the newspaper that is completely irrelevant to what I was saying.  That is all. 

To your point (which, again had nothing to do with my point), yes Bold Events makes money from the amphitheater.  Yes the Jags use the Practice Facility.  But the city owns and runs all the buildings, and the Jags contribute a lot to those buildings (paid 50%).  This is a partnership that helps everyone. 

That is 100% correct. Those events aren’t run whatsoever by the Jaguars or the “evil Mr. Khan”

Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #265 on: June 13, 2018, 02:53:33 PM »
The City owning the buildings aren't necessarily a positive for me - I would prefer the Jags own them and put them on the tax rolls.  Want the team to stay here, a $300 million anchor would do that better than any lease.

Yes, the events you listed are City run and would exist if the Jags were here or not.  However, there is also an opportunity cost that comes with the Jags in that the stadium in unusable for those types of event for a large portion of the year.  On that note, Monster Jam has been moved to the arena .
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Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #266 on: June 13, 2018, 02:57:08 PM »
Sure glad Kerry didn’t live in Jax in 1989.

It wouldn't have mattered.  I am vastly out numbered either way :)
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Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #267 on: June 13, 2018, 03:07:33 PM »
While I’d certainly wouldn’t mind having the economic growth of Austin, I definitely don’t want to be in Richmond’s or Norfolk’s shoes in terms of growth.

I definitely think the Jaguars deserve a portion of the credit for the economic growth.

Maybe their lack of economic growth is because they're in VA. Or maybe it's because they start with letters that come later in the alphabet. Both 'hypothoses' are just as reasonable as randomly assuming that the presence of a professional football team is the reason for purported better growth on the part of Jax.

“The” reason for growth? Definitely not, nor did I ever (or would ever) say that. A catalyst that plays a role? I think it would be hard to argue otherwise. The area gets, by a rough calculation, 50 hours a year of TV commercials, which doesn’t include social, radio, etc. I think any company would take that.

Now, to be fair: I’m not talking about regions that spend a billion dollars on a stadium in one shot. That you really could never justify.

By my math, the COJ has spent $153M in the last 25 years (excluding Jaguars’ contributions)
$53M in 1994-5 (to build)
$12M in 2002-4
$43M in 2013 (scoreboards, north end zone, pools)
$45M in 2015 (Daily’s Place Flex Field, Clubs)

Compared to other cities, that’s really not bad.

Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #268 on: June 13, 2018, 03:08:39 PM »
The City owning the buildings aren't necessarily a positive for me - I would prefer the Jags own them and put them on the tax rolls.  Want the team to stay here, a $300 million anchor would do that better than any lease.

Yes, the events you listed are City run and would exist if the Jags were here or not.  However, there is also an opportunity cost that comes with the Jags in that the stadium in unusable for those types of event for a large portion of the year.  On that note, Monster Jam has been moved to the arena .

The the city would get much less each year from Florida-Georgia, and then Downtown’s benefit from those events are at risk. I’d love to see how that makes sense.

Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #269 on: June 13, 2018, 03:18:24 PM »
The City owning the buildings aren't necessarily a positive for me - I would prefer the Jags own them and put them on the tax rolls.  Want the team to stay here, a $300 million anchor would do that better than any lease.

Yes, the events you listed are City run and would exist if the Jags were here or not.  However, there is also an opportunity cost that comes with the Jags in that the stadium in unusable for those types of event for a large portion of the year.  On that note, Monster Jam has been moved to the arena .

Also. The stadium is unuseable because of the Jags about 12 days a year, the city was in serious jeopardy of losing the Florida-Georgia game before the Jags came due to the fact that the place was in disrepair.

Also, Monster Jam didn’t move to the Arena. There is a second smaller show called Triple Threat that will be in the Arena. The main show is stil at the stadium (was in March)