Author Topic: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018  (Read 31489 times)

heights unknown

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2018, 08:15:01 PM »
That rendering is awe inspiring not to mention breathtaking. Hope it comes to fruition, and I understand that even if any or all of this is approved, it will be constructed in phases. It just seems weird to me that Kahn is building up around the stadium taking up land that was once surface parking lots, and yes the smart thing to do would be to construct parking garages to cover the loss of surface parking, and do that first before commencing with the rest of the development/construction. Looks like a mini urban core or downtown apart from the real urban core west of the stadium. It appears that they want, and are yearning for density in our downtown which includes all types of business, and, office towers were mentioned, but density is the thing that caught my ear/eye that they mentioned; yes, get rid of all of those surface parking lots and fill them in with restaurants, offices, residential towers and residences, stores, and office towers. It appears that Jax finally is on the way. I turned 61 last October and will soon be 62, and I just hope I last and live long enough to see Jax finally mature and come of age...unless, God forbid, we get nuked or some foolish stupid event happens caused by our leaders...GO JACKSONVILLE!!!
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 08:18:06 PM by heights unknown »
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MusicMan

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #76 on: April 20, 2018, 08:29:30 AM »
I'm a big fan of Shad Khan but can anyone explain to me why his Florida residence is in Naples, not Jacksonville?

That makes no sense to me.

I also like how his yacht is prominently featured in the renderings!


Jagsdrew

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #77 on: April 20, 2018, 09:00:22 AM »
I love the renderings but this isn't happening this decade. It's going to take a lot of time. To add to Ken's point, it was a lot of general terms as far as development and scope. I'd be keen to understand first the conditions of the soil which would ultimately set the timelines and budget for the whole project.  What we saw was the fully loaded vehicle in the car commercial but that's not the one that's affordable by most.

Notice how the shipyards weren't part of the presentation? I think they have a better understanding of the shipyards' condition but most importantly they want to have as much development near the stadium to benefit their venues. They want the stadium/Daily's place to be the core and work out from there.  Stadium/Daily's Place -> Lot J -> Met Park -> Shipyards -> Downtown.

Did the mayor/city have any reaction to the recent plans? I'm interested to see their initial response.
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Jagsdrew

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #78 on: April 20, 2018, 09:09:32 AM »
I'm a big fan of Shad Khan but can anyone explain to me why his Florida residence is in Naples, not Jacksonville?

That makes no sense to me.

I also like how his yacht is prominently featured in the renderings!

I think a lot of people don't understand Shad outside of the Jaguars. He is first and foremost a businessman at his company Flex N Gate.  He spends the majority of this time traveling around the world for business meeting with car companies, distributors and manufacturers.  If he's in the states, its not in Jacksonville, rather his HQ in Champaign, Illinois where Flex N Gate is headquartered.  He is not in Jacksonville much.  If you see his boat parked downtown, doesn't mean he's in Jacksonville.  The yacht operates on a schedule so it might be parked there for 3 weeks, but he will only be in Jax for 3 days. I'm sure he is in Jax one more day today and he will be off somewhere by EOD.

The Jaguars are one of his other businesses but he appointed Mark Lamping to run the business operation and Tom Coughlin to run the football operation.  This setup is TOTALLY different than the Weaver's when Wayne was overseeing in full capacity the business and football operation on a day-to-day basis.

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CityLife

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #79 on: April 20, 2018, 09:18:46 AM »
Khan likely has his Florida base in Naples as a winter home. When it is 40 in Jacksonville in the winter, it is 70 in South Florida. There are also better beaches, boating, opportunities for networking with other ultra wealthy, and private clubs. The ultra wealthy in Florida tend to live in Miami, Palm Beach, Jupiter, and Naples, where they can be around other ultra wealthy people and where there is infrastructure to support their lifestyles.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 09:24:28 AM by CityLife »

Tacachale

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #80 on: April 20, 2018, 10:04:49 AM »
I believe Naples is Khan's primary residence, but yes, he's probably there mainly in the winter months. We're insulated from the whole snowbird thing a lot in Jax as we're pretty year-round, so it's easy to forget how phenomenally lame much of the rest of the state is. SW Florida especially is mainly a haven for retirees and rich northern boat owners. But yes, the Jags account for only about $1.5 billion of his $7 billion dollars (though it's the most high profile part of his empire).

I never understood why Khan doesn't just buy a penthouse here for when he's in town. Using the yacht means planning it out months in advance (and it would take weeks or months to get anywhere else) or renting a place short term. Buying a suite would have to be chump change for him. But it's his prerogative.
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KenFSU

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #81 on: April 20, 2018, 10:17:53 AM »
What's such a lost opportunity with this whole thing is that it should be on the riverfront, not in a parking lot. Estimates for full Shipyards remediation (cleaning the entire property for any use) are around $35 million. The city is already sitting on $13 million earmarked specifically for that purpose, meaning we'd need to come up with $22 million more to get the land shovel ready.

How long have we been sitting on that money, and on the Shipyards, without doing anything to make the property development ready?

Now, instead of spending $22 million to activate the riverfront with a Cordish development, we're looking at spending $60+ million on a 3,000 space parking garage, because the only developable land in the vicinity is the existing stadium parking lot.

Even if some of those parking spots are net new, you've got to think that remediating the Shipyards would be comparable, if not cheaper, than replacing the Lot J parking with a garage. Even if you cleaned up the whole property and figured out use later.

All that said, still a super exciting project, still great for Jacksonville, hopefully we learn a lesson from it.

A few more tidbits that I've picked up:

- The strong, strong desire from the Jaguars is office space, rather than residential, for most of the Lot J tower space. To Bill's point about there not being a market for new office space downtown, the thought is to use the development to lure new business to Jacksonville, perhaps internationally.

- Unlike the Shipyards, the Jags have zero concern about the condition of Lot J. They'd done enough testing to be convinced that construction can be underway in less than 12 months.

- Lot J likely won't be phased. The desire is to build it all out in one shot.

Quote
Did the mayor/city have any reaction to the recent plans? I'm interested to see their initial response.

Curry's been on board for almost a year, since his clandestine trip to meet with Cordish and tour their properties in Baltimore, St. Louis, and Kansas City. He was on the phone with Sam Mousa before the plane even landed looking at ways to find the capital for the project. I think all parties involves (rightfully) do what it takes to make it happen.

Tacachale

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #82 on: April 20, 2018, 10:29:30 AM »
What's such a lost opportunity with this whole thing is that it should be on the riverfront, not in a parking lot. Estimates for full Shipyards remediation (cleaning the entire property for any use) are around $35 million. The city is already sitting on $13 million earmarked specifically for that purpose, meaning we'd need to come up with $22 million more to get the land shovel ready.

How long have we been sitting on that money, and on the Shipyards, without doing anything to make the property development ready?

Now, instead of spending $22 million to activate the riverfront with a Cordish development, we're looking at spending $60+ million on a 3,000 space parking garage, because the only developable land in the vicinity is the existing stadium parking lot.

Even if some of those parking spots are net new, you've got to think that remediating the Shipyards would be comparable, if not cheaper, than replacing the Lot J parking with a garage. Even if you cleaned up the whole property and figured out use later.

All that said, still a super exciting project, still great for Jacksonville, hopefully we learn a lesson from it.

A few more tidbits that I've picked up:

- The strong, strong desire from the Jaguars is office space, rather than residential, for most of the Lot J tower space. To Bill's point about there not being a market for new office space downtown, the thought is to use the development to lure new business to Jacksonville, perhaps internationally.

- Unlike the Shipyards, the Jags have zero concern about the condition of Lot J. They'd done enough testing to be convinced that construction can be underway in less than 12 months.

- Lot J likely won't be phased. The desire is to build it all out in one shot.

Quote
Did the mayor/city have any reaction to the recent plans? I'm interested to see their initial response.

Curry's been on board for almost a year, since his clandestine trip to meet with Cordish and tour their properties in Baltimore, St. Louis, and Kansas City. He was on the phone with Sam Mousa before the plane even landed looking at ways to find the capital for the project. I think all parties involves (rightfully) do what it takes to make it happen.

The parking lots were always laid out to make future development possible since the current stadium was built. A garage and buildings is a better use of space than a huge empty lot. I don't see any problem with developments there.

As to office space, I really doubt there's demand for more office space in the urban core even if it does involve new companies. Unless it's specific new companies that want space built out ad hoc, but it doesn't sound like that's the case. Methinks this is still very conceptual.

Lot J is also contaminated, and I doubt we know the full extent of it. Again, conceptual.

I do expect that we'll see parts of this come along sooner or later. The partnership with Cordish suggests we'll get a "Live!" at some point. We'll also probably get the garage before anything else. But we're many years off on any of the other stuff.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

thelakelander

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #83 on: April 20, 2018, 11:10:46 AM »
Live! and the garage are about half of it. They'd need a garage regardless of if it were riverfront or a parking lot on Lot J. The site on Lot J is much better, IMO. Actually, the Lot J concept as a whole is better than what has been shown on previous Shipyards concepts. It sucks up a ton of surface parking (great thing) and is more realistic in conceptual layout. However, neither is realistic for Jax's market unless he's moving Flex n Gate's headquarters to town to consume all that office space. Also they probably prefer office over residential because of noise associated with nearby events and concerts.
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CityLife

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #84 on: April 20, 2018, 11:51:57 AM »
Good points Lake. I think strategically it's smart to go for office in earlier phases. Fairly common in large mixed use projects to have office as a driver of the overall development. For this project to succeed, Khan has to essentially create a new market out of thin air. There is not significant demand for luxury residential, retail, dining in DT, particularly by the stadium. Nor is there a shortage of office space downtown. With the amount of money Khan has to his name, and the amount he stands to gain by the redevelopment, he can provide substantial discounts or incentives to lure in a new HQ or corporate relocations that would not ordinarily come to DT Jax. If he is able to pull in one or two, the chips start to fall into place for everything else.

That said, I still have some doubts about the viability of the project. I think a lot of it rests on how committed Khan is to making it happen. If he is in it for the long term, and creates spectacular amenities, public spaces, and world class design, as well as subsidies to initial users; this can happen earlier than people realize. I just hope it is geared towards a realistic market, not the aforementioned ultra wealthy, Four Seasons type users.

thelakelander

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #85 on: April 20, 2018, 12:02:40 PM »
Dan Gilbert improved the DT Detroit market for his dreams by relocating his company's headquarters there. That's one thing Khan can do, although he probably doesn't want the negative impact it would cause in Illinois.
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JaxVision

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #86 on: April 20, 2018, 12:30:09 PM »
I dont know the logistics of what these organizations and companies need but in the rendering there are two smaller office buildings near potential apartments between TIAA Field and the Baseball Grounds. These buildings could be home offices to the Jax sports council and other smaller sport organizations in Jax like the Sharks, Icemen, Armada. The other Building could become the HQ for our very own Jax based Fanatics as they are the official merch supplier for all major sports teams in the country.

The Lot J area could get a international company to come in. I know a lot of business is moving HQs to campuses or they dont need a lot of space DT but Khan has connections to London and other countries that could land someone we aren't thinking about to make North America HQ here. Either way it will be some time as we have seen projects in the past never develop or just take years to break ground.

KenFSU

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #87 on: April 20, 2018, 12:56:50 PM »
^I don't think this will ever happen. Khan's extremely sentimental about Urbana (where he moved from Pakistan to attend college and later headquartered Flex N' Gate), he considers Chicago to be his home, and his political and economic ties in Illinois dwarf his Jacksonville ties ten times over. Flex N' Gate has economic incentives on top of economic incentives where they're at, and actually partner with the state of Illinois on certain facilities. I think there's a better chance of seeing the Urbana jaguars before we see Jacksonville Flex N' Gate.

thelakelander

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #88 on: April 20, 2018, 01:24:12 PM »
Yes that's basically how I feel about this project, the Shipyards in general, the District and JTA's Skyway modification proposal as currently constructed. All fool's gold that's years away from reality or ever happening as illustrated and being marketed. For the development proposals, Jax couldn't fill that much combined new office and luxury residential space now even if it wanted too. For the Skyway, the application of the technology doesn't appear to fit with the reality of the environmental context. At this point, my excitement remains with the smaller short term viable projects that luckily continue moving forward.
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RattlerGator

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #89 on: April 20, 2018, 02:25:17 PM »
Leave the board for months at a time and come back to the same skepticism. Seems like only yesterday many here were saying there's no way they're taking down that roadway, there's no way the state is kicking in money in the short term to take down that roadway, there's no way, no way, no way.

((( sigh )))

One thing we may need to hope for is with Trump's winning strategy (y'all doubted that, too) and with multiple foreign corporations now needing a greater American presence to avoid tariffs, etc., that some outfit (or three) now in London or elsewhere will set up shop in this new development.

The Jaguars have confidently presented a $2.5 billion plan, introduced the Cordish Company to us, and told us Beyer Blinder Belle Architects & Planners LLP developed the master development plan.

They aren't blowing smoke. It's going to happen. The riverfront is proving to be too much of an immediate headache. Spend that money on Lot J now, get the development rolling, focus that riverfront more on park space -- remediation becomes a much, much simpler problem then.

Density, density, density -- right? Y'all should be jumping for joy. Density we will get.