Author Topic: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018  (Read 33084 times)

Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #315 on: June 19, 2018, 09:46:04 AM »
I had no idea John Peyton was head of the Chamber.

 “I think that what we’ve needed in Jacksonville is a signature project that shows momentum, where somebody really puts their flag in the ground and says, ‘We’re making an investment, and we’re gonna take risks, because we believe there’s great potential.’ I think Shad Khan is the guy who’s willing to be bullish on Downtown and take steps that, quite frankly, we haven’t seen before at this magnitude.”

I see we are still counting on the silver bullet 'game changer' project to turn things around.

Meanwhile the private small to medium sized projects are the ones having the real impacts.

remc86007

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #316 on: June 19, 2018, 10:12:33 AM »
Yep. Downtown is definitely improving. Clearly too much attention and time is being spent on trying to get a "silver bullet" project going. I think we already have one: The Barnett building and the Laura street trio. I think they will be enough to spur significant organic growth. If I were the mayor, I would focus on getting as many of the vacant buildings in the core renovated and occupied as possible. What Vestcor is doing is what ultimately will lead to growth: getting people to live downtown.

Captain Zissou

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #317 on: June 19, 2018, 10:34:19 AM »

Jacksonville ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The city of Jax has gone full "idiot".  Maybe we should start calling this place Special Jax.

vicupstate

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #318 on: June 19, 2018, 10:45:39 AM »
Yep. Downtown is definitely improving. Clearly too much attention and time is being spent on trying to get a "silver bullet" project going. I think we already have one: The Barnett building and the Laura street trio. I think they will be enough to spur significant organic growth. If I were the mayor, I would focus on getting as many of the vacant buildings in the core renovated and occupied as possible. What Vestcor is doing is what ultimately will lead to growth: getting people to live downtown.


Indeed. If Matt Carlucci had been elected instead of 'Big Ideas' John Peyton, JAX might be a lot further along toward DT vitality. 
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

civil42806

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #319 on: June 19, 2018, 11:18:58 AM »
Yep. Downtown is definitely improving. Clearly too much attention and time is being spent on trying to get a "silver bullet" project going. I think we already have one: The Barnett building and the Laura street trio. I think they will be enough to spur significant organic growth. If I were the mayor, I would focus on getting as many of the vacant buildings in the core renovated and occupied as possible. What Vestcor is doing is what ultimately will lead to growth: getting people to live downtown.


Indeed. If Matt Carlucci had been elected instead of 'Big Ideas' John Peyton, JAX might be a lot further along toward DT vitality. 

Hey I voted for Carlucci!!

KenFSU

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #320 on: June 19, 2018, 11:22:40 AM »
“I think that what we’ve needed in Jacksonville is a signature project that shows momentum, where somebody really puts their flag in the ground and says, ‘We’re making an investment, and we’re gonna take risks, because we believe there’s great potential.’ I think Shad Khan is the guy who’s willing to be bullish on Downtown and take steps that, quite frankly, we haven’t seen before at this magnitude.”

I see we are still counting on the silver bullet 'game changer' project to turn things around.

In addition to the "game changer" silliness, the pure semantics of what we consider to be "downtown" baffles me.

You almost want to show these people a map.

Lot J is 17 blocks, and 1.3 miles from the CBD, and we constantly hear it discussed as a downtown game changer.

Meanwhile, four blocks to the west of the Landing, and barely a third of a mile walk along the riverwalk, is Brooklyn and the Times-Union property.

Do we ever talk about the Times-Union property or Vista Brooklyn as a potential downtown game changer?

Hell, keep walking, and Memorial Park is practically the same distance from the CBD as Lot J, but we certainly don't consider Memorial Park to be a downtown game-changer.

Even if Lot J is a huge success, let's call it what it is - creating a new neighborhood - rather than what it's not, downtown revitalization.


Captain Zissou

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #321 on: June 19, 2018, 11:31:22 AM »
^ I borrowed your quote and it has started some FB discussion. 
Doing some VERY rough google measuring, if you take out Market Street and make a giant old courthouse super block, you get ~204k square feet if the building fronts all sidewalks (not possible).  So you get 4-5 floors of parking with ground floor retail, space for some of the biggest freight elevators none to man, utilities, and other things thrown in, then you put 2-3 floors of exhibition space on top of that, then a hotel on top of half for another 5 floors.  You end up with a hideous monstrosity of a building that Berkman, Hyatt, and the city itself would be up in arms over.  I think they Hyatt courthouse dream died with the loss of the parking lot space.

thelakelander

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #322 on: June 19, 2018, 11:46:49 AM »
It works fine when combined with the Hyatt and it's meeting facilities. I seriously doubt it would need more than two floors. Everything flies out the window when trying to squeeze in what the DIA wanted in that RFP. Even if it could fit, I doubt Jax could support or afford it.
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Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #323 on: June 19, 2018, 01:03:18 PM »
What stops Khan from just buying some land and building his ideas if he wants to be a real-estate developer?  Maybe he should start out with a small in-fill project to see if he is good at it.  I mean, he could actually suck at building good urbanism.
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Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #324 on: June 19, 2018, 01:24:16 PM »
What stops Khan from just buying some land and building his ideas if he wants to be a real-estate developer?  Maybe he should start out with a small in-fill project to see if he is good at it.  I mean, he could actually suck at building good urbanism.

There’s not really any land adjacent to the stadium that’s privately owned.

jaxnyc79

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #325 on: June 19, 2018, 01:30:23 PM »
OK, I understand "Metrojacksonville" is full of emotional volatility and recency bias, but while I have my concerns with Curry's Administration, the very much revered Barnett and Trio were incentivized under his watch and are actually in motion during his administration.  So all is not lost.    Jax is on a very bumpy ride to renewal, but that's probably not unique to Jax.  Finally, does anyone know the inside scoop on the hand-off of the Barnett Building from Shad-owned Iguana to its current ownership?  Is there a compelling story of reconciliation and mediation here?     

Kerry

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #326 on: June 19, 2018, 01:59:05 PM »
What stops Khan from just buying some land and building his ideas if he wants to be a real-estate developer?  Maybe he should start out with a small in-fill project to see if he is good at it.  I mean, he could actually suck at building good urbanism.

There’s not really any land adjacent to the stadium that’s privately owned.

So?  Is he wanting to be a real-estate developer or not?  He could buy a lot near FSCJ and see if he can be successful with some student housing.
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KenFSU

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #327 on: June 19, 2018, 02:24:21 PM »
OK, I understand "Metrojacksonville" is full of emotional volatility and recency bias, but while I have my concerns with Curry's Administration, the very much revered Barnett and Trio were incentivized under his watch and are actually in motion during his administration.  So all is not lost.    Jax is on a very bumpy ride to renewal, but that's probably not unique to Jax.  Finally, does anyone know the inside scoop on the hand-off of the Barnett Building from Shad-owned Iguana to its current ownership?  Is there a compelling story of reconciliation and mediation here?     

Khan, through Stache Investments, loaned Adkins $3 million to purchase the Barnett in 2013. Barnett failed to make payments on the loan, the property went into foreclosure, and Khan bid around $50k to retain it in 2016. Khan didn't necessarily want to develop it himself, but he wanted to make sure that the property was put in good hands. The trust was broken with Adkins, but when Molasky group came back to the table with Adkins and laid out their plans for the Trio, Khan agreed to sell it to Molasky, for around $4 million and change, I believe.

For the Trio deal, I personally give most of the credit to Adkins and Aundra Wallace, but I agree, Curry has overseen a lot of positive development downtown, has made some bold moves, and has successfully lobbied for a lot of state money for the Hart Bridge ramp removals. He's deepened the city's relationship with Shad Khan and the Jaguars (which I fully support), and even if I don't support every decision, he makes things happen. I'll take Curry 20 times out of 10 over Peyton. That number jumps to 25 if he buries the hatchet with Sleiman and works towards a common solution for the Landing.

Steve

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #328 on: June 19, 2018, 02:58:44 PM »
What stops Khan from just buying some land and building his ideas if he wants to be a real-estate developer?  Maybe he should start out with a small in-fill project to see if he is good at it.  I mean, he could actually suck at building good urbanism.

There’s not really any land adjacent to the stadium that’s privately owned.

So?  Is he wanting to be a real-estate developer or not?  He could buy a lot near FSCJ and see if he can be successful with some student housing.

That's not what he wants to do. A developer isn't "required" to develop land that's beneficial for someone else, and I don't get the vibe that Shad Khan wants to be a major player in real estate. Make no mistake - he wants to develop around the stadium to help the Jaguars. He hasn't been shy about it, and I don't personally care if that's his motive....as long as it's a good deal for the citizens.

Most cities are realizing that building their stadiums in a sea of parking isn't ideal.

KenFSU

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Re: Jaguars State of the Franchise 2018
« Reply #329 on: August 14, 2018, 12:41:30 PM »
Mark Lamping gave a talk this morning.

Here's what the Jags are going to be aggressively pushing for this fall:

1) An economic development agreement with the city in place for Lot J by the end of the year
2) Simultaneous construction underway for five buildings on Lot J by May (entertainment complex, office tower, residential building, hotel, and parking garage).
3) Lot J construction complete two years from now, in time for the start of the 2020 football season

Will be interesting to see the proposed agreement. My guess is the first phase will be $300-$500 million, with the city being asked to provide the property and 30% of the financing through bonds paid back via TIF but guaranteed through the general fund, and Iguana and Cordish covering the rest.