Author Topic: Cool Projects in Other Cities  (Read 23737 times)

KenFSU

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #105 on: June 07, 2018, 10:53:49 AM »
The hurdle is JTA, not necessarily money or the mayor's office. They don't believe fixed transit like streetcars is the future. Time will tell if they are right and OKC, Charlotte and all these other places are wrong or if we're doing Skyway 2.0 all over again.

My question is this:

We know that multiple companies, including Uber, are aggressively pursuing driverless cabs. It's a future we've all seen coming since 2014. Why would we want to use our limited public transit funds to compete with and replicate what the private market is already doing? Especially when said private market is going to have economies of scale and competitive advantages that we can't possibly compete with (single-rider fares estimated at 35 cents a mile, with the ability to sell vehicles once they hit 50,000 miles).

10 years from now, why does a local, or a downtown worker, or a business traveler, or a tourist go through the trouble of using JTA's system when a cheaper, more familiar, universal alternative is likely going to be in place?

Why not let the private market tackle driverless cabs, and focus on something we actually might have a competitive advantage with (fixed transit with dedicated or prioritized right-of-way)?

Tacachale

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #106 on: June 07, 2018, 10:55:10 AM »
The hurdle is JTA, not necessarily money or the mayor's office. They don't believe fixed transit like streetcars is the future. Time will tell if they are right and OKC, Charlotte and all these other places are wrong or if we're doing Skyway 2.0 all over again.

Even if JTA is right about AV technology, they're still years away from a system that actually functions (or doesn't). These streetcar systems could be in place before the first AV pod ever serves a customer in Jacksonville.

Another issue is that there's no real knowledge of transit in the rest of the city government and private sector leadership, so they rely on JTA to drive the bus. That would actually be a good setup if JTA had a track record of making the right calls on public transit. Unfortunately, even if transit folks did start getting in leadership positions, the planning department, etc., we'll be all in on this AV thing before they could get us in the right direction.

That's not to say streetcars are the answer to every problem. They have issues of their own, especially in cities that build them primarily as a development tool rather than a transit solution, which is a lot of them.
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fieldafm

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #107 on: June 07, 2018, 11:02:50 AM »
^Wow!

Almost five miles, 22 stations, for $133 million.

Hits the business district, Chesapeake Energy Arena, museums, a library, the law school, a park, the courthouse, etc.

Cool project.

When you remove debt from the equation things get a lot cheaper.

This is a little simplistic.

Technically, the streetcar and many other projects were bonded out for slightly below $1 billion... the bonds will be made whole over a 20 year period due to a voter-approved extension of the city's existing MAPS sales tax as well as an additional .25 increase in the sales tax.  The bonds and sales tax increase/extensions covered much more than just the streetcar (including public safety capital improvements, public works capital improvements, libraries, affordable housing and economic development set asides). The sales taxes are expected to raise about $1.5 billion over that same time period, which unless there is a shortfall (read recession, which is more likely than not) will cover principal and interest to service the debt.

Essentially this was OKC's version of Better Jacksonville version 3.0. They already passed a Better Jacksonville 1.0 and 2.0 plan. Our Better Jacksonville 2.0 was an extension of the existing sales tax to cover pension debt, no additional taxes were proposed... which meant no additional capital improvements were to be funded.  In Jax, we do have a dedicated funding source that could be earmarked towards transportation projects called the Mobility Fee. The new 5 year priority list for the Mobility Fee should be due out soon. I don't believe that any funds will be earmarked towards transit projects.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 11:06:30 AM by fieldafm »

Kerry

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #108 on: June 07, 2018, 11:11:38 AM »
The Streetcar in OKC did not use any bonds.  OKC does use bonds for road construction but the MAPS projects are all funded with existing cash collected one penny at a time in advance.  Not only does the City save on interest, but they invest what they already collected so it continues to grow while it is waiting to be spent.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 11:13:44 AM by Kerry »
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Tacachale

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #109 on: June 07, 2018, 12:31:48 PM »
The Streetcar in OKC did not use any bonds.  OKC does use bonds for road construction but the MAPS projects are all funded with existing cash collected one penny at a time in advance.  Not only does the City save on interest, but they invest what they already collected so it continues to grow while it is waiting to be spent.

I don't think that's the case. From what I've read, Mike is correct.
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Kerry

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #110 on: June 07, 2018, 12:54:19 PM »
I lived there for 6 years - they don't do bonds for MAPS projects.  The entire purpose of MAPS is to build public facilities without using debt.

https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/about-maps-3

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MAPS 3 is a capital improvements program in Oklahoma City that uses a one-cent, limited-term sales tax to pay for debt-free projects that improve our quality of life.

If a local politician even suggested paying back a bond with MAPS funds or using bonds to fund a MAPS project their political career would be over right then.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2018, 12:59:48 PM by Kerry »
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thelakelander

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #112 on: July 02, 2018, 07:16:10 PM »
35 story tower in downtown Pensacola breaking ground in September 2017 and finishing in December 2018? You sure this isn't a pipe dream? Just look at the rendering. That tower must have just taken a cold shower!

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Kiva

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #113 on: July 02, 2018, 07:44:35 PM »

 Especially when said private market is going to have economies of scale and competitive advantages that we can't possibly compete with (single-rider fares estimated at 35 cents a mile, with the ability to sell vehicles once they hit 50,000 miles).

Sounds great. Where did you get the estimates from?

I-10east

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #114 on: July 03, 2018, 02:10:57 AM »
Within Columbus, OH's metro, they are supposed to be getting a massive billion dollar plus amusement park/sports/entertainment complex. No doubt that the Columbus area in the fastest growing in the state, and one of the fastest growing in the Midwest.

https://www.bizjournals.com/columbus/news/2018/06/28/billion-dollar-plus-amusement-park-planned-on-350.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kk7e6w9096Q

I-10east

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #115 on: July 03, 2018, 02:16:47 AM »
^^^I'm not going lie as that massive project seems very 'pie in the sky' to say the least, but hopefully everything works out.

Kerry

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #116 on: July 03, 2018, 08:47:26 AM »
35 story tower in downtown Pensacola breaking ground in September 2017 and finishing in December 2018? You sure this isn't a pipe dream? Just look at the rendering. That tower must have just taken a cold shower!

Guess the joke is on me - turns out that project was an April Fools Joke.

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