Author Topic: Cool Projects in Other Cities  (Read 24091 times)

KenFSU

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #60 on: June 04, 2018, 11:14:58 AM »
A bunch of Jax appoligist on a site that is supposed to be leading the way for urbanization.  No wonder the City Council and Mayor's office don't get anything done.  If the supposed fanaticals aren't even fanatic why should anyone be?

Define apologists? I'd give Jax an honest B- for this economic cycle thus far. The Landing and Shipyards will likely remain boondoggles for years to come, but you don't need to be an apologist to recognize that a lot of progress has been made in the last decade, headlined by the Barnett and Trio coming back to life, tons of new residential in LaVilla, solid development in Brooklyn, added residential on the southbank, a new amphitheater in the stadium district, endangered historic building stock coming back to life via Cowford Chophouse and 20 West, both of our major colleges investing in downtown, the new Regional Transportation Center going up, etc. No, there aren't cranes on every block like Tampa, Orlando, and Miami, but our downtown core is slowly progressing at a reasonable rate that the local market can sustain.

Kerry

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #61 on: June 04, 2018, 11:24:55 AM »
I'm not a Sarasota appoligist but hells bells - if it sucks so bad and has this level of development then how bad must Jax suck?
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Kerry

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #62 on: June 04, 2018, 11:41:33 AM »
A bunch of Jax appoligist on a site that is supposed to be leading the way for urbanization.  No wonder the City Council and Mayor's office don't get anything done.  If the supposed fanaticals aren't even fanatic why should anyone be?

Define apologists? I'd give Jax an honest B- for this economic cycle thus far. The Landing and Shipyards will likely remain boondoggles for years to come, but you don't need to be an apologist to recognize that a lot of progress has been made in the last decade, headlined by the Barnett and Trio coming back to life, tons of new residential in LaVilla, solid development in Brooklyn, added residential on the southbank, a new amphitheater in the stadium district, endangered historic building stock coming back to life via Cowford Chophouse and 20 West, both of our major colleges investing in downtown, the new Regional Transportation Center going up, etc. No, there aren't cranes on every block like Tampa, Orlando, and Miami, but our downtown core is slowly progressing at a reasonable rate that the local market can sustain.

I define it like that ^.  Dragging ass around the track at 1/3 the speed of peer cities while being 10 laps down isn't progress.  There is ZERO excuse for it.  If this was NASCAR we would be black flagged.
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Adam White

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #63 on: June 04, 2018, 11:41:40 AM »
I'm not a Sarasota appoligist but hells bells - if it sucks so bad and has this level of development then how bad must Jax suck?

It sucks because it's boring, full of old people, is really hot and muggy and lacks much in the way of personality. That's not to say they've not done stuff with the place - it's just not my cup of tea.

For example - some people would say that Buffalo, NY has undergone a renaissance and has shaken off the many decades of deterioration and funk that plagued the city. You still couldn't pay me to live there, though.
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thelakelander

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #64 on: June 04, 2018, 11:53:31 AM »
Never!! I'm living part time in Orlando now. I'm not impressed with its historic built environment. While there are some cool areas it's no comparison to what you can find in Jax and Tampa.
Winter Park and Rollins College area is pretty darn nice.  Jax has nothing like that.  Not really a fan of Orlando myself though.
Riverside/Avondale/Oretga/Venetia. The layout is just different. In Winter Park the commercial corridor is limited to one or two main drags. In Riverside/Avondale it's split up among smaller neigborhood mixed use districts. Jax also has a hell of a lot more middle housing units. Winter Park is limited in that aspect of urbanity which drives up the costs. Both have great parks but Jax has more and I'll take the river over lakes any day. I do like Sunrail running through there though despite its poor service.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 11:55:04 AM by thelakelander »
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Kerry

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #65 on: June 04, 2018, 12:17:47 PM »
I'm not a Sarasota appoligist but hells bells - if it sucks so bad and has this level of development then how bad must Jax suck?

It sucks because it's boring, full of old people, is really hot and muggy and lacks much in the way of personality. That's not to say they've not done stuff with the place - it's just not my cup of tea.

For example - some people would say that Buffalo, NY has undergone a renaissance and has shaken off the many decades of deterioration and funk that plagued the city. You still couldn't pay me to live there, though.

I get it, there are places I don't want to live either...but just dismissing urban progress because "I wouldn't want to live there" is totally missing the point.  If Sarasota, with all its faults, is generating this kind of development then clearly someone in City Hall has identified the problem and are taking steps to rectify it.  We need to be holding the City here accountable for their lack of progress as it relates to walkable urbanism - not dismissing progress in other places.  **** man, Omaha has 84 downtown and downtown adjacent projects geared towards walkable urbanism going on or recently completed.  We have are thumbs up our *** with low income housing while looking at pretty pictures from Khan.

http://www.omaha.com/money/more-than-dozen-development-projects-that-are-changing-the-nebraska/collection_9c41b0da-e7d0-11e6-b97a-17f4708285ab.html
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thelakelander

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #66 on: June 04, 2018, 12:19:55 PM »
Never!! I'm living part time in Orlando now. I'm not impressed with its historic built environment. While there are some cool areas it's no comparison to what you can find in Jax and Tampa.

Orlando has its pockets (College Park and Winter Park are nice). They've also done a good job making their downtown more lively than it used to be IMO. Considering that it's competing with the mouse and all that I-4 sprawl, they're a good example of making the most of limited resources. I say that as someone who really doesn't like Orlando.
College Park is a more expensive version of Murray Hill, IMO. Edgewater is Edgewood, just a decade ahead at this point, although College Park's housing is mid century ranch like Arlington if you like that style. I've explained my thoughts on Winter Park. Downtown and other areas nearby like Thorton Park are also nice. I never said it didn't have any nice areas. The scale of what you'd expect for a place with 2.5 million residents is simply too miniscule for my tastes. Minus the sprawl and a couple of streets downtown, it feels like a bigger, more expensive version of historic Lakeland.

What I like about Jax (even in its unpolished state) are the areas outside of the few neighborhoods millennials are attracted too. Brentwood, Panama Park, New Springfield, Durkeeville, Paxon, St. Nicholas, etc. Some amazing places that newer cities will never have. Then there's places like Atlantic Beach, Jax Beach, Mayport, Hanna Park, etc. I'll take those over I-Drive, neon lights and chain restaurants. If sprawl is your thing, there's not much difference between Millennia and Town Center. I'll also take Fernandina and St. Augustine over Sanford and Winter Garden (I like all of these places, btw).

Overall, I'm a guy that values cultural, architectural and historic urban diversity. Orlando simply doesn't have enough of those qualities for my tastes. In Florida, Jax, Tampa and Miami do.

So if I were Jax, I'd focus on improving what I already have that makes me special as opposed to trying to out Disney Orlando or out South Beach Miami. Those are fights Jax will never win.
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Tacachale

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #67 on: June 04, 2018, 12:40:38 PM »
Never!! I'm living part time in Orlando now. I'm not impressed with its historic built environment. While there are some cool areas it's no comparison to what you can find in Jax and Tampa.

Orlando has its pockets (College Park and Winter Park are nice). They've also done a good job making their downtown more lively than it used to be IMO. Considering that it's competing with the mouse and all that I-4 sprawl, they're a good example of making the most of limited resources. I say that as someone who really doesn't like Orlando.
College Park is a more expensive version of Murray Hill, IMO. Edgewater is Edgewood, just a decade ahead at this point, although College Park's housing is mid century ranch like Arlington if you like that style. I've explained my thoughts on Winter Park. Downtown and other areas nearby like Thorton Park are also nice. I never said it didn't have any nice areas. The scale of what you'd expect for a place with 2.5 million residents is simply too miniscule for my tastes. Minus the sprawl and a couple of streets downtown, it feels like a bigger, more expensive version of historic Lakeland.

What I like about Jax (even in its unpolished state) are the areas outside of the few neighborhoods millennials are attracted too. Brentwood, Panama Park, New Springfield, Durkeeville, Paxon, St. Nicholas, etc. Some amazing places that newer cities will never have. Then there's places like Atlantic Beach, Jax Beach, Mayport, Hanna Park, etc. I'll take those over I-Drive, neon lights and chain restaurants. If sprawl is your thing, there's not much difference between Millennia and Town Center. I'll also take Fernandina and St. Augustine over Sanford and Winter Garden (I like all of these places, btw).

Overall, I'm a guy that values cultural, architectural and historic urban diversity. Orlando simply doesn't have enough of those qualities for my tastes. In Florida, Jax, Tampa and Miami do.

So if I were Jax, I'd focus on improving what I already have that makes me special as opposed to trying to out Disney Orlando or out South Beach Miami. Those are fights Jax will never win.

Not disagreeing with you, just giving some (tepid) defenses of Orlando. Most of it objectively sucks, but there are some things they've done that are worth paying attention to. It's a lot better in some ways than it was when I lived there 17 years ago.
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thelakelander

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #68 on: June 04, 2018, 12:41:21 PM »
I'm not a Sarasota appoligist but hells bells - if it sucks so bad and has this level of development then how bad must Jax suck?

It sucks because it's boring, full of old people, is really hot and muggy and lacks much in the way of personality. That's not to say they've not done stuff with the place - it's just not my cup of tea.

For example - some people would say that Buffalo, NY has undergone a renaissance and has shaken off the many decades of deterioration and funk that plagued the city. You still couldn't pay me to live there, though.
I'd do a Buffalo or Detroit before I'd consider a Sarasota for the same reasons I'm not crazy about Orlando. With that said, all of these places have made strides over the last decade. Jax could certainly learn a lesson or two when it comes to downtown redevelopment. Other than that, Jax holds its own.
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thelakelander

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #69 on: June 04, 2018, 12:49:03 PM »
Never!! I'm living part time in Orlando now. I'm not impressed with its historic built environment. While there are some cool areas it's no comparison to what you can find in Jax and Tampa.

Orlando has its pockets (College Park and Winter Park are nice). They've also done a good job making their downtown more lively than it used to be IMO. Considering that it's competing with the mouse and all that I-4 sprawl, they're a good example of making the most of limited resources. I say that as someone who really doesn't like Orlando.
College Park is a more expensive version of Murray Hill, IMO. Edgewater is Edgewood, just a decade ahead at this point, although College Park's housing is mid century ranch like Arlington if you like that style. I've explained my thoughts on Winter Park. Downtown and other areas nearby like Thorton Park are also nice. I never said it didn't have any nice areas. The scale of what you'd expect for a place with 2.5 million residents is simply too miniscule for my tastes. Minus the sprawl and a couple of streets downtown, it feels like a bigger, more expensive version of historic Lakeland.

What I like about Jax (even in its unpolished state) are the areas outside of the few neighborhoods millennials are attracted too. Brentwood, Panama Park, New Springfield, Durkeeville, Paxon, St. Nicholas, etc. Some amazing places that newer cities will never have. Then there's places like Atlantic Beach, Jax Beach, Mayport, Hanna Park, etc. I'll take those over I-Drive, neon lights and chain restaurants. If sprawl is your thing, there's not much difference between Millennia and Town Center. I'll also take Fernandina and St. Augustine over Sanford and Winter Garden (I like all of these places, btw).

Overall, I'm a guy that values cultural, architectural and historic urban diversity. Orlando simply doesn't have enough of those qualities for my tastes. In Florida, Jax, Tampa and Miami do.

So if I were Jax, I'd focus on improving what I already have that makes me special as opposed to trying to out Disney Orlando or out South Beach Miami. Those are fights Jax will never win.

Not disagreeing with you, just giving some (tepid) defenses of Orlando. Most of it objectively sucks, but there are some things they've done that are worth paying attention to. It's a lot better in some ways than it was when I lived there 17 years ago.
I grew up 20 minutes from Disney. Central Florida in general has changed a lot since I went away to college in 1995. Jax has too. Overall the scale of growth has been different and it's something that Jax will never compete with. Yet I view Jax like a Portland. It will never be the size of San Francisco or Seattle. Yet it can carve out a niche by being better at being itself and building upon its unique quirks. This is happening now, more than ever since I moved here in 2003. So while I'm critical of certain things, I also have come to acknowledge the city's strong points. Same goes for Orlando. DT is much more lively today than it was back then. However, the area of overall pedestrian scale development and built environment is still limited...even compared to Jax.
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thelakelander

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #70 on: June 04, 2018, 12:56:50 PM »
I'm not a Sarasota appoligist but hells bells - if it sucks so bad and has this level of development then how bad must Jax suck?

It sucks because it's boring, full of old people, is really hot and muggy and lacks much in the way of personality. That's not to say they've not done stuff with the place - it's just not my cup of tea.

For example - some people would say that Buffalo, NY has undergone a renaissance and has shaken off the many decades of deterioration and funk that plagued the city. You still couldn't pay me to live there, though.

I get it, there are places I don't want to live either...but just dismissing urban progress because "I wouldn't want to live there" is totally missing the point.  If Sarasota, with all its faults, is generating this kind of development then clearly someone in City Hall has identified the problem and are taking steps to rectify it.  We need to be holding the City here accountable for their lack of progress as it relates to walkable urbanism - not dismissing progress in other places. 

I don't think anyone is dismissing progress. How familiar are you with Sarasota? It's a rich white man's playground and has been for quite sometime. It has a market for what is being proposed. Jax currently doesn't. These are two places with completely different demographics. Other than personal preferences, both places have their positives and negatives.

Move DT Jax to the Intracoastal and all of our inner city, industry and jobs to Fernandina or St Augustine and we'd be Sarasota too.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

I-10east

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #71 on: June 04, 2018, 12:59:25 PM »
It's good to see more diverse and even keeled opinions of Jax here vs the MJ of 3 years ago when everyone was like a Kerry-clone, and Jax could never do anything right no matter what; we suck, we suck, we suck was all that they said.

I'm fine with critical opinions of the city, but sometimes things that people say is downright ridiculous, in a ever-melancholy state of mind, and everywhere else like urban California with hordes of homeless and taxes is utopia.

Kerry

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #72 on: June 04, 2018, 01:21:54 PM »
I want Jax to improve.  If that means calling a few strikes then so be it.  I'm not give Jax a participation trophy.  So anyhow, I think this horse has been beaten to death so back to the topic at hand.

New North American headquarters building in downtown Oklahoma City.  The company is relocating from midtown Atlanta.

https://newsok.com/article/5594981/new-details-emerge-on-headquarters-planned-for-automobile-alley-in-oklahoma-city



« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 04:15:00 PM by Kerry »
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Downtown Osprey

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #73 on: June 04, 2018, 01:41:07 PM »
I could not agree with Lake's comments more. Jax will never be a SF, Atlanta etc. However, it can and should be comparable to Savannah, Charleston and Ashville. Cities that people my age (25-29) prefer to visit much more than say a Dallas or even Atlanta. They take great pride in their history and culture, and young people gravitate towards that. I (apologetically) visited Savannah for the first time last week and was blown away by how vibrant and happening their downtown was. There's no reason we can't have something similar given our historic neighborhoods and some of the most beautiful buildings downtown (many of which are in the process of being remodeled). 
« Last Edit: June 04, 2018, 01:42:38 PM by Downtown Osprey »

Kerry

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Re: Cool Projects in Other Cities
« Reply #74 on: June 04, 2018, 02:53:17 PM »
West Village - Oklahoma City

CMSWillowbrook is transforming the Oklahoma City skyline. West Village is a 334-unit mixed-use urban development with residential, retail, dining and office space in the Film Row district of downtown Oklahoma City. The project consists of six structures spanning three city blocks. Two, five-story apartment buildings make up the largest percentage of housing. West Village includes a fifth-story clubhouse, a rooftop pool and a fitness center. A multistory cast-in-place “podium” parking garage and two precast parking garages more than six stories tall provide parking for the facility.

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