Author Topic: The District wants $26 million in public incentives  (Read 33401 times)

sanmarcomatt

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2017, 08:51:48 AM »

In other words, the tax payer assumes the lionshare of the risk and Rummell gets all the profits.

I put on my Editor hat

thelakelander

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2017, 08:57:27 AM »
If the deal is configured this way (ex. city buys land and builds most of the infrastructure), what's the point of Rummell's involvement?
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marcuscnelson

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2017, 08:28:14 PM »
If the deal is configured this way (ex. city buys land and builds most of the infrastructure), what's the point of Rummell's involvement?

Profiting.

Noone

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2017, 08:09:21 AM »
Lets simplify this whole project.  It's 30 acres. That should hold 100 single family homes.  At $350,000 per home that puts $35,000,000 into the tax role, and a nice community could thrive there. You might be able to get more for a nice 3/2 with 2000 sf there. Add some community amenities like a pool, fitness center, riverwalk  and marina and it would sell out quickly.   A monthly HOA ( lets say $200) would be paid to JEA and provide income for the next 100 years ( in addition to the income from selling the parcel).   ($20,000 per month)

JEA needs to move on and stop pretending to be a real estate developer. 

This whole enterprise again illustrated why the RFP process is ridiculous.

Maybe I'm too greedy for wanting more than a glorified subdivision directly on our downtown riverbank, but I want more than a glorified subdivision. Obviously Rummell isn't panning out, but I'd think we should be able to at least get a decent bit of density.

Didn't Rummell's plan for The District include townhouses on a section of it already?

Yes, it includes townhomes. This proposed deal sounds like the city is buying the land and building the infrastructure, while Rummell serves as a master developer, essentially flipping individual parcels to other groups to construct individual projects that align with the master plan.

In other words, the city assumes the lionshare of the risk and Rummell gets all the profits.

+1

thelakelander

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 12:32:18 AM »
DIA approves paying up to $45 million in incentives to free District developers of the risk...

Quote
The District would have 1,170 residential units, 200 hotel rooms, 200,000 square feet of office space, 285,000 square feet of retail space, and a 125-slip marina. It also would extend the Southbank Riverwalk and have a public park on the riverfront. The total investment would be about $433 million, according to a DIA presentation to the board.

The city’s would have a substantial financial role. It would pay up to $26.4 million for improvements that would be usable by the public. The city also would pay JEA, which currently owns the property, a total of about $18.6 million in annual installments through 2040. The city then would have Elements be the master developer.

The purchase of the land with payments stretching through 2040 would mark a significant change from JEA’s original intent to sell the land in a straight transaction. Elements offered to buy the land for $18 million three years ago, but the deal never closed.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2018-01-08/downtown-panel-wants-jea-shoulder-some-risk-district-development-deal
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sanmarcomatt

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2018, 09:24:44 AM »
DIA approves paying up to $45 million in incentives to free District developers of the risk...

Quote
The District would have 1,170 residential units, 200 hotel rooms, 200,000 square feet of office space, 285,000 square feet of retail space, and a 125-slip marina. It also would extend the Southbank Riverwalk and have a public park on the riverfront. The total investment would be about $433 million, according to a DIA presentation to the board.

The city’s would have a substantial financial role. It would pay up to $26.4 million for improvements that would be usable by the public. The city also would pay JEA, which currently owns the property, a total of about $18.6 million in annual installments through 2040. The city then would have Elements be the master developer.

The purchase of the land with payments stretching through 2040 would mark a significant change from JEA’s original intent to sell the land in a straight transaction. Elements offered to buy the land for $18 million three years ago, but the deal never closed.

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2018-01-08/downtown-panel-wants-jea-shoulder-some-risk-district-development-deal

At this point, I can only laugh. But if this is agreed upon, please tell me that the School Board bldg becomes part of the development.

sanmarcomatt

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2018, 09:46:53 AM »
Breaking news.

The district has been renamed "The Blockchain District" and Rummel now has fools begging to invest millions. Problem solved.

thelakelander

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2018, 09:49:04 AM »
No, the school board building will still be there. DCPS is not involved in this.
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sanmarcomatt

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2018, 09:57:35 AM »
No, the school board building will still be there. DCPS is not involved in this.

and the joke gets funnier....

thelakelander

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2018, 10:07:17 AM »
More details. This thing could tie up the Southbank TIF in the same manner that has the Northbank TIF in the red:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/amid-concerns-downtown-investment-authority-approves-deal-to-buy-land-proposed-for-the-district
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vicupstate

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2018, 10:53:13 AM »
Quote
While DIA unanimously approved the project, members said they wanted detailed answers about the structure of the deal, the financial ability of both the master developer and its potential partners to see the project to completion, and the use of funds from the Southside TID to pay JEA.

I realize they will  have a another vote on this eventually, but if JEA approves it, they will be under a lot of pressure to not kill the deal. If there is so much trepidation about this deal, they should have tabled it till the next time they could meet.

Is it a safe assumption that since this project is on the launch pad that the Shipyards is definitely on the back burner? I can't imagine anyone thinking this project and Shipyards could both happen simulataneously. 
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Tacachale

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2018, 11:03:36 AM »
Quote

Is it a safe assumption that since this project is on the launch pad that the Shipyards is definitely on the back burner? I can't imagine anyone thinking this project and Shipyards could both happen simulataneously. 

Other signs point to the Shipyards being on the backburner as well, at least for the time being. The hints dropped by the Mayor as well as the Jags about an entertainment district closer to the stadium for one, and tying of the development to removing the Hart Bridge ramps (which isn't happening soon) for two.
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Steve

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2018, 11:18:57 AM »
Quote
While DIA unanimously approved the project, members said they wanted detailed answers about the structure of the deal, the financial ability of both the master developer and its potential partners to see the project to completion, and the use of funds from the Southside TID to pay JEA.

I realize they will  have a another vote on this eventually, but if JEA approves it, they will be under a lot of pressure to not kill the deal. If there is so much trepidation about this deal, they should have tabled it till the next time they could meet.

Is it a safe assumption that since this project is on the launch pad that the Shipyards is definitely on the back burner? I can't imagine anyone thinking this project and Shipyards could both happen simulataneously. 

Normally, I'd agree about pressure. However, I don't think DIA will be under too much pressure in this case. Ultimately, JEA can only apply so much pressure. With City Council members questioning this whole thing the pressure would be less as I think this might have a hard time clearing Council anyway.

Now, with that said I don't fully understand this whole thing yet. I've read the articles posted here a couple times, but I need to read through this when I'm not multi-tasking here....this is a little complex.

Tacachale

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2018, 11:25:39 AM »
Quote
While DIA unanimously approved the project, members said they wanted detailed answers about the structure of the deal, the financial ability of both the master developer and its potential partners to see the project to completion, and the use of funds from the Southside TID to pay JEA.

I realize they will  have a another vote on this eventually, but if JEA approves it, they will be under a lot of pressure to not kill the deal. If there is so much trepidation about this deal, they should have tabled it till the next time they could meet.

Is it a safe assumption that since this project is on the launch pad that the Shipyards is definitely on the back burner? I can't imagine anyone thinking this project and Shipyards could both happen simulataneously. 

Normally, I'd agree about pressure. However, I don't think DIA will be under too much pressure in this case. Ultimately, JEA can only apply so much pressure. With City Council members questioning this whole thing the pressure would be less as I think this might have a hard time clearing Council anyway.

The pressure will mostly come from the administration.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

KenFSU

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Re: The District wants $26 million in public incentives
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2018, 11:37:58 AM »
Now, with that said I don't fully understand this whole thing yet. I've read the articles posted here a couple times, but I need to read through this when I'm not multi-tasking here....this is a little complex.

I think it sounds slightly more complicated than it actually is.

Original plan was for Elements to purchase the property directly from JEA for $18.6 million, and then likely ask the city to provide $46 million in public infrastructure (utilities, roads, riverwalk extension, maybe public parkspace, etc.).

The new plan has Elements putting that same $18.6 million immediately toward public infrastructure, asking the city for $18.6 million less in infrastructure improvements ($26.4 million), and having the DIA purchase the land from JEA for $18.6 on a twenty-ish year loan, to be paid paid back annually using a 75/25 combination of revenue directly generated from the District and the Southbank TIF.

The actual numbers seem to be about the same.

On the surface, it seems like an iffy deal for JEA, but Elements also bid $6 million higher for the land than anyone else, so they'd likely see far less cash if the property went back to market.

What I actually kind of like about the new proposal is that, if everyone agrees that the District as imagined would be a huge net win for the southbank, it holds all parties responsible for doing their part to get shovels in the ground quickly and make the project a success.

In terms of the Shipyards, I think it's closer than people think. The only minor roadblocks standing in the way of the project breaking ground are:

1) The execution of a development agreement between Iguana and the city
2) The $90 million state-funded removal of the Hart Bridge Ramps, which isn't even in the FDOT's five-year plan.
3) The multi-year, $45 million+ remediation of the Shipyards Property, Met Park, and the area under the ramps, which the city hasn't even properly estimated, let alone contracted, yet.
4) The negotiation of a land swap for Metro Park, and the construction of a new park in-kind on said contaminated land
5) The completion of Berkman 2, which may or may not be structurally sound by this point.

No joke, wouldn't be surprised to see the Shipyards going vertical by March.

Kidding aside, though Lamping has said that the Shipyards will proceed with or without the removal of the Hart Bridge ramps, the mayor has a line item in this year's budget indicating removal is the long-term plan, and there's still no plan at all in place to begin environmental cleanup. Realistically, it's going to be a long time before this one breaks ground.

10-1 that Khan just continues piecemealing his original Shipyards plans in and around the stadium like he's done with Daily's Place. I bet the Cordish Jacksonville Live-ish entertainment complex, and potentially a hotel, break ground in the stadium district, opposite the Hart Bridge ramps, before we see any movement on the Shipyards proper.

Could see the Shipyards itself ending up mostly residential/office.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 11:46:50 AM by KenFSU »